KFA - Krishnamurti Foundation of America

nature wrote:

…but, anyway, it is a long, long way to come up with this point, to see at least this one, yet. But without this seeing of distructive nature of inner talking --

You see you say inner talking. We also continually build a future-a fantasy. And we live in that expectation. It becomes an escape from our boredom. And when one fantasy falls apart we are quick to build another & live in that. So we are constantly escaping reality. That covers up our hollowness. So we grow old that way. Caught in a vicious addiction of living in a fantasy avoiding reality!

Jayaraj wrote:

nature wrote:

…but, anyway, it is a long, long way to come up with this point, to see at least this one, yet. But without this seeing of distructive nature of inner talking --

You see you say inner talking. We also continually build a future-a fantasy. And we live in that expectation. It becomes an escape from our boredom. And when one fantasy falls apart we are quick to build another & live in that. So we are constantly escaping reality. That covers up our hollowness. So we grow old that way. Caught in a vicious addiction of living in a fantasy avoiding reality!

That’s it, my friend. That’s exactly what it is; very rich on sense message.

And that’s exactly the nub of the whole problem, isn’t it?

Can ordinary people, see it as a fact without any mystics and philosophical explanations, what do you think?

Last edited by natura (2012-02-19 03:35:07)

I can see a bigger problem with people unable to communicate. Some fearing to speak because they feel insecure. Some not wanting to speak because they think it would undermine their power or their security. Silence is also a deadly thing. I also think Bruce speaking is vain, and I hope he will change that one day.

kirsten wrote:

when someone asked K what his secret was, he answered: "I don't mind what happens".

OK, Kirsten,

look, if you want to see something so as it is, but you do mind that to happen what is actually happening, what would you see in fact?

Would you see the current events or your ‘minding’ will interfere into that and corrupt your perception?

Wouldn’t you see a mixture of what it actually is and what you would have wanted to see?

"I don't mind what happens" is related to the passivity of observation essentially necessary to see what actually is.

And back to my message and question with Jayaraj’s supplement made so beautifully.

Can we notice and see actually that we are permanently talking inwardly?
It’s not a theoretical question as you certainly understand.

Frenchtouch wrote:

I can see a bigger problem with people unable to communicate.

I’m not sure there is a bigger problem than the addiction to inner speaking.
This speaking in my vision is primary interferes into communications and is exactly responsible for all misunderstandings.
But yes, corrupted communication is a big problem, anyway.
We will try to find out interconnections between the inner speaking and inability to communicate.

Frenchtouch wrote:

Some fearing to speak because they feel insecure.
Some not wanting to speak because they think it would undermine their power or their security.

Right, inner fear exists from any sorts of reasons.
It also has relation to inner speaking and interferes with perception and reaction, doesn’t it?

Frenchtouch wrote:

Silence is also a deadly thing.

That’s a very special point, extremely important for human life and our specific business here on the forum.

Yes, ordinary man identifies silence with death. Death uses to be fearful since ever.

Can we have a look at that set now: inner speaking, fear, silence and death and interconnections of these elements?

Frenchtouch wrote:

I also think Bruce speaking is vain, and I hope he will change that one day.

Well, I know him since he is here on the forum. I see him not that much stiff as some members think he is. I definitely see him changing.
From my point of view his immense talkativeness is his problem not only on this forum, but also in his private life.
Further up in this thread, if we could manage to keep it constructive, we will inevitably confront with destructive effects of using (well, rather misusing) words, speaking.

Last edited by natura (2012-02-19 19:21:18)

natura wrote:

bruce sean wrote:

natura wrote:

Someone who is fond of soap-operas with the questions like ‘who is that who makes…’.
Please, no worries, take another thread – all forum is yours.)

Are you trying to control me, natura?

I’m trying to say we put different meaning into the same words, bruce, i.e. your conditioning is far away from the mine, no offence, please.
Therefore we are speaking without understanding and that’s in vain, just has no point.
That situation usually provokes soap-operas and either pointless at all or wobbly point talkativeness which we have more than enough here.
I see it as detrimental and trying to avoid.

bruce sean wrote:

Or do you think your thread is something special, because it is 'yours', and so you can dictate who can respond and who can't?

Yes, this topic and thread supposed to be something special, indeed, otherwise I wouldn’t open it.
It has a very special point which I would like to discuss constructively with people who see something in it.
I know someone here who does.

bruce sean wrote:

It isn't the first time this happens, and perhaps it won't be the last.

I might easily be the last time if you or someone else with syndrome of logorrhoea will make enough noise to blear up the point, bring in distractions and spoil the thread.

bruce sean wrote:

I suggest the only answer you have at your disposal is to ignore mine.

Alright, thank you.

I was pointing out specific things, and all you can come up with is to blame you're misunderstood, but WITHOUT going into it. You are avoiding again facing your misunderstandings, which repeat again in this last post when you say that my conditioning is different than yours. That's complete nonsense: YOU ARE MOVING FROM ONE FALSE STATEMENT TO THE NEXT, FROM ONE NONSENSE TO THE NEXT.

  You are running away from yourself.

RJ wrote:

why would you say "I don't mind what happens" and then go about trying to change people's thinking, perspectives, goals, education systems, morality, beliefs and desires?

bit oxymoronic isn't it?

Yes, RJ it is one; it is definitely an oxymoron, good for you to see it.

The fact is that human being is sitting deeply in oxymorons living with them, living in them, playing around with them noticing them in special cases only. That’s exactly the reason human’s world doesn’t contain the truth. Talking about truth is running out since ever into eternity without any trace of success to find it out, on the contrary producing more and more conflicts, now globally. 

That’s the precondition, RJ, we are in a deadly noose of oxymorons, they are everywhere.

The question is do we want to get out or it’s still acceptable the dwelling in this loveless world.
Mostly people are accepting it and they don’t see their addictions, don’t see the world crisis, don’t hear the appeal to wake up and they take for a bliss anything they can catch from this life… until their day will come, of course, but they usually accept it too.

However, there also are people who perceive their being in this life as distress. They usually start looking for love and truth.
Krishnamurti forum is supposed to be the place where such people could receive some useful ideas about that matter.

So, yes, I want the things to be changed, I want to change myself, I passionately desire it and I’m ready to pay price for that.
On the other hand, I mustn’t have any resistance to see the things so as they are, that way I’m taking the position, ‘I don’t mind what happens’.

What is the key to this oxymoron, what is the key to this stone-old conundrum?

That’s exactly my intention starting this thread to have a look into the matter as deeply as possible.
No one prepared, verbal answer would have value here and I don’t have them.

It’s all about a very special approach to a very special matter.

natura wrote:

Jayaraj wrote:

nature wrote:

…but, anyway, it is a long, long way to come up with this point, to see at least this one, yet. But without this seeing of distructive nature of inner talking --

You see you say inner talking. We also continually build a future-a fantasy. And we live in that expectation. It becomes an escape from our boredom. And when one fantasy falls apart we are quick to build another & live in that. So we are constantly escaping reality. That covers up our hollowness. So we grow old that way. Caught in a vicious addiction of living in a fantasy avoiding reality!

That’s it, my friend. That’s exactly what it is; very rich on sense message.

And that’s exactly the nub of the whole problem, isn’t it?

Can ordinary people, see it as a fact without any mystics and philosophical explanations, what do you think?

Yes sir, I too think it's the nub of the whole problem.

Can people see this generally? Well one thing is clear. Vast majority is just following the trend of the society. We just change objects. In the newness of the new object we get caught. We never ask what makes the first object distasteful.So we are addicted to experience that newness. Do people see this? Some but the majority is just caught in it. Is it that they don't see any other way of living? Is it that there is not enough pointing to all this?That may be a major reason. I feel the vast majority is resigned to this predicament,doesn't think anything really practical,affecting life now itself, is at all possible. What do you think sir?

natura wrote:

night wrote:

The only question that matters it seems to me is whether your addiction or habit or boredom is creating suffering around you. If not, then inner talk all you want, there is no problem really.

Real pleasure to see a layout like that. No prepared answers, just outlook to watch.

Suffering – another and most powerful element of all in our seemingly complex system to deal with.

Just preliminary, might be useful; fear is just a sort of suffering, isn’t it?

When we are feeling fear we suffer. It’s common for all of us, just universal, right?

Same with the boredom. It might take a form of depression and be just unbearable suffering.

So, suffering can show up inside of man in different forms which actually have the same root.

What is the role of addiction or habit to inner speaking?

How can we find out this intercorrelation?

Can we make it in the way of very intensive thinking about it, looking for as much as possible information about it from most wise sources or people (like Krishnamurti, Bruce or myself – just for example) or we might have some special tool useful for us to make it on our own?

Well, it is still an excellent question whether this addiction is harmful for a human being or it’s just natural, inherited quality of all people living.

But I think it could be the next step.
Firstly I was about to put up that simple question without any estimation. I just repeat it:

Are we noticing that we are living in permanent taking to ourselves inwardly?
Do we see that this addiction exists?

Inner talking, which is repeating one's thought to oneself, stems from the need to feel that one exists. Like pinching yourself constantly: am i here, am i here?

It only matters if you see, because it bothers you now. But for some it is not yet unbearable so they wont care: save your breath.

pearl wrote:

So much talk about "inner talking", ha,ha.  As for addcition is there a single person here who is not addicted to any particular pattern of thinking?  As I understand it's not really about addicition for addcition is only a small part of the 'self', but the matter of interest is whether you(you here is all) have died to the source of it all.

Hitler and Mussolini were only the primary spokesmen for the attitude of domination and craving for power that are in the heart of almost everyone. Until the source is cleared, there will always be confusion and hate, wars and class antagonisms.
Jiddu Krishnamurti quotes

....says the K addict.

pearl wrote:

You know, he's talking about exactly people like you, like tom's, of the forum.

Or is he talking about the kind of people who make bigoted and racist remarks in forums about white people and Americans? ...you know, the kind of people who are addicted to duality, which breeds hatred.

Behind that aggressivity is a fearful, highly insecured, confused little boy who cannot but spew hatred on to anyone whom he cannot control, like most control freaks.  Grow up, Eden and be man.