KFA - Krishnamurti Foundation of America

where's the resistance?

BobD, keep reading Eden's words and you will get the picture of an understanding in the shape of the human body.

Each of us has their own form the understanding takes. I think of the understanding as intelligence, so I get wonky.

I get an armchair philosopher picture of you, but it's not clear...

[edit]
PS: I think what he is seeing is 'us' in his bodily sense; but of course, that requires your reading first.

Last edited by wilbro99 (2012-01-20 19:42:02)

Ok, so that is what you mean by opening.

You include the body in the same way I include the body; except that we choose the self-identity differently.

Don't hassle it, just thinking out loud...

wilbro99 wrote:

You include the body in the same way I include the body; except that we choose the self-identity differently.
.

This has nothing to do with identity.  Can you not distinguish between a body that is open, and one that is a bit more closed.  One can see it even in one's posture and breathe and gestures.  This is not an abstraction.

Eden wrote:

bruce sean wrote:

2 identical minds would make them one, not 2 anymore. Aren't all people's minds identical, in essence?

Personally I would rather drop the word 'mind' altogether. No brains are identical.  Some of the concepts, myths,  and dualistic ideas believed by two people are nearly identical, and thus two brains may have similar filters through which they see life, but they are never identical.   

You and pearl have very similar filters, which creates very similar dualistic distortion and labeling of life. Not identical obviously, but more similar than you may realize, as demonstrated in your agreement about what 'love is' and what supposedly 'love is not'.

No, I say identical. The structure is the same, identical. Not identical in details, but the structure is identical.

Isn't it obvious? So there is only one brain, the human brain.

Billions of bodies all with the same conditoning, same pressures and traumas, all nurtured the same way from the womb, in childhood, with fear, facing the same challenges...having the same reactions to the pressures inflicted.  One may live on an island, in a palace, or in a little village...it's the same conditioning, the same fear, the same desires, hurts, although it might appear to be all different, with different levels of grades...just wondering aloud, if you don't mind.

Eden wrote:

bruce sean wrote:

Isn't it obvious? So there is only one brain, the human brain.

That is absurd bruce. There are billions of brains and billions of bodies, all with different pressures and traumas and experiences, all nurtured differently in the womb and in childhood, each one facing different challenges.  Life is indeed one organism but each body/brain reflects uniquely the pressures inflicted upon it and the nurturing in the differing environments in which these bodies are living. 

Your philosophical need to create this concept of "one brain" is rooted in your need to preserve your belief system which revolves around this concept of being in the 'one mind', or out of it.  You hope to create an 'all or nothing' type belief that simplifies everything and removes all sense of learning, progression, evolution, flowering, time, opening, growth, etc. 

Most brains are indeed constantly accessing and downloading all the conceptual intelligence from the network (or matrix) of thought, but not all.  So from that standpoint, the structure of the brain is in fact slightly different.  Some brains are functioning very differently when it comes to filtering/screening the information that is coming into it from the world around.

There are different challenges, but the brain's responses to them is identical. Each brain has different objects of attachments, but the attachment itself is identical in all brains that are not free from it, which is the majority of the brains. And the same with the objects of fear, pleasure, and so on, which are different, but fear, pleasure are common to us all. There is a structure of a thinker in all brains, no matter where they live on this Earth. A strong belief they exist, and all the rest of it.

pearl wrote:

Billions of bodies all with the same conditoning, same pressures and traumas, all nurtured the same way from the womb, in childhood, with fear, facing the same challenges...having the same reactions to the pressures inflicted.  One may live on an island, in a palace, or in a little village...it's the same conditioning, the same fear, the same desires, hurts, although it might appear to be all different, with different levels of grades..

Yet some bodies are able to open their hearts and bodies fully through all the patterns--or 'despite the patterns'--and some bodies are unable to see the patterns at all.

Some bodies are totally identified with the patterns and some bodies recognize the patterns for what they are and transmute those patterns into love. 

Why does one body have the capacity/ability to see those patterns, whereas another does not?

pearl wrote:

Billions of bodies all with the same conditioning...

...it's the same conditioning, the same fear, the same desires, hurts, although it might appear to be all different.

pearl wrote:

As for why some people are able to see and others not, I'd say it depends upon the conditioning.

pearl wrote:

Oh I see you din't understand, but never mind.

Hmm.

pearl wrote:

Best of luck though with your transmuting love thru the patterns.:-)

When love/openness is brought into the patterns, they change/end don't they?  Have you ever found yourself laughing at an old pattern when it appeared? At that moment the pattern itself became transmuted into love and humor.

When patterns are recognized for what they are, love/openness becomes the new pattern...which is the pattern of the universe.

Eventually one recognizes that even the patterns themselves were the unfolding and blossoming of the One love that we are.

Wasn't it K that said you can only understand that which you truly love?

Can you say that you have truly fallen in love with violence, brutality, rape, war, romance, materialism, greed, consumerism, pornography and all the rest of it?  If you haven't yet seen the the true nature of all this as the most incredible love simply trying to break free from its shells--if you haven't yet seen this all as the beautiful dark side of love disconnected from the heart, then you will never understand it.  You will never fall in love with it until it is all seen as pure love itself.

As long as your mind continues to say 'this is love' and 'this is not love', you will stay in your shells. You true radiant beauty will never fully shine through your body.  It will stay partially hidden behind forums, agreeing on points with the bruces of the world whose only passion in life is to point out that which is love, and that which is not.

Eden wrote:

You see pearl, pattern recognition is what allows the body to eventually break free from patterns and open up to life fully and freely. Pattern recognition is a constant evolution, it is a constant learning process.  (not the accumulation of more ideas obviously)

Whether you will agree or not, your body is still unraveling and breaking free of patterns that are millions of years old along with patterns from your childhood--patterns that are hard wired into your nervous system.  This constant process of recognizing patterns and bringing love and full consciousness and humor and affection into them is the flowering love itself.  Yes?

The evolution you speak of is illusion.  Eventually breaking free is a nice romantic idea, a cozy promise you tell yourself and others, another pattern in which the mind is trapped.  Now, don't diss this off as me being in a shell, but see it as bringing love and affection, ending of another pattern, ending of all patterns actually.  :-)