KFA - Krishnamurti Foundation of America

natura wrote:

night wrote:

The form follows a process, because every form changes: the humans growing, the seed to the plant to the fruit. The immature mind wants to deny process in order to find a shortcut to some state. Deep down consciousness is unchanging though, unmodifiable, but the expression of it through form is ever changing, an art in constant refinement.

Going ‘deep down’ is exactly that ‘shortcut’ and stopping circling processes of developing and superficial changes.

Not sure if I am following you, natura. Of course, it is not about going there, reaching something other than what you already are; it is being in touch with that depth which was always there and has not changed at all, untouched by all the events in life.

awareness wrote:

snguyen wrote:

Is consciousness unchangeable and are we stuck with the past, the old forever?

First, by your own thought image activities without awareness and attention you are constantly reinforcing the old consciousness. The moment you try to change it is nothing but consciousness is improving itself, becoming. It is always the past, a connection to the past to judge the presence. And in the past is security because without it you would feel very lost. The loss feeling is not a true loss but thought thinking, feeling about losing the known brings about the terrifying fear of death, loneliness, meaninglessness and all those.

When you examine it carefully without giving it all the fancy terms and immature conclusions, you understand all its structure and nature, its continuity and deterioration, its stagnation with the old content and despair with becoming, its love which divides and brings about enmity and so on, will you then say it is unchangeable out of your own motive of greed for change, or you see it clearly as it is and leave it alone in awareness?

When you leave it alone, but you are constantly alert in awareness, attention to every thought and feeling, every movement of division and conflict, the mind using this new tool of watching will become quiet and deep. It is both the cessation of the fast movement of thought and the awareness/attention in emptiness that expand the mind and penetrate into the unknown. There you will discover a new consciousness, a new strength and joy.

Are you speaking about the conscioussness, which is undergoing the constant transformation? the thinking without thought?

Yes, a new consciousness full of happiness, ever young, absence of pressure of any kind, and in touch with the unknown which is not exhaustible.

The thing you care most about is this supreme happiness in silence. It is the unknown that inexhaustibly overflows this happiness to you.

To receive it, the mind must be simple and free from thought.

What you know are ever the old, the words, the images, the recognition, the thought. Behind all these which are but the movement of thought, the other cannot be known. It is called the unknown. But you don’t understand and don’t leave it alone. Thought will come in trying to make sense, make an experience of it, and you are caught in thought ever again.
There is that thing which thought cannot touch. If thought understands this, it ceases to act. When thought ceases to act, the creative happiness begins, and since it is creative you are so overwhelmed in ecstasy.

If all this sounds fanciful to you, then look at something more practical. Take fear for example. What is fear? It is something unknown, right? You know it only when thought moves, and so what you know, feel, sense is thought itself, and never the real thing. Thought wants to understand, to comprehend, to take hold of it, but how can it? Do you see this? Thought can only take hold of itself and from there it creates, constructs upon feelings and sensations a conditioning of its own, builds strength over time and becomes a false reality. So where is the real fear? It is either unknowable or does not exist. What you fear is just imagination.

Similarly to the whole world of thought, it is a world of imagination and falseness. Therefore, it is so limited if you don’t want to see that it is miserable.

Can I share or invite you to some of those supreme happiness that does not have a cause? Work hard my friend. Understand this happiness!

bruce sean wrote:

awareness wrote:

snguyen wrote:

Is consciousness unchangeable and are we stuck with the past, the old forever?

First, by your own thought image activities without awareness and attention you are constantly reinforcing the old consciousness. The moment you try to change it is nothing but consciousness is improving itself, becoming. It is always the past, a connection to the past to judge the presence. And in the past is security because without it you would feel very lost. The loss feeling is not a true loss but thought thinking, feeling about losing the known brings about the terrifying fear of death, loneliness, meaninglessness and all those.

When you examine it carefully without giving it all the fancy terms and immature conclusions, you understand all its structure and nature, its continuity and deterioration, its stagnation with the old content and despair with becoming, its love which divides and brings about enmity and so on, will you then say it is unchangeable out of your own motive of greed for change, or you see it clearly as it is and leave it alone in awareness?

When you leave it alone, but you are constantly alert in awareness, attention to every thought and feeling, every movement of division and conflict, the mind using this new tool of watching will become quiet and deep. It is both the cessation of the fast movement of thought and the awareness/attention in emptiness that expand the mind and penetrate into the unknown. There you will discover a new consciousness, a new strength and joy.

Are you speaking about the conscioussness, which is undergoing the constant transformation? the thinking without thought?

Thinking withought thought is a misnomer, while thinking without the thinker is not.

an excellent distinction to have a feel for...as you imply, thought is an ongoing process, even if that 'thought' is simply a natural observation.  The thinker however, is a phenomenal arising, it has an owner.