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Kindly be mindful of the following points regarding the forum. Dialogue is thinking together - it isn’t debate - and it's inquiring together without end point or agenda. People come into the dialogue from their own place of understanding, which is not going to be your place of understanding. We’re here to communicate together, learn together and gain insight into our own thought; to receive and share our observations, not impose our views on others. Address the comments in a polite, considerate manner. By all means, ask for clarification, but challenge the comment, not the commentator. We don’t know enough about the others to make those judgments and we’re here to learn about ourselves, not to correct another's perceived personality flaws. If a comment brings an emotional response, look at that. Do you feel the need to defend? To attack? Time for some looking inward. Self protection results in war. Besides, the war is in each of us. Stop that war, and the rest will take care of itself. (For some suggestions on the nature of dialogue, please click here)
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#51 2011-12-23 12:31:05
Re: Relation between thought and awareness
tree wrote:
is there more?
well in a discussion forum there sure as hell should be. You can describe anything by saying this. We are talking specifically about awareness and thought and you are only taking the easy way out.
Last edited by joe (2011-12-23 12:31:55)
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#52 2011-12-23 12:31:42
- awareness
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- Registered: 2011-09-03
- Posts: 4038
Re: Relation between thought and awareness
joe wrote:
awareness wrote:
joe wrote:
Are you aware of the tree? What you are calling awareness has a residue, that is the speculation. To have any idea whatsoever about awareness means that it is touched by thought, or as adam has put it there is a relationship. Think about it.
why are you doing this, joe
For years and years now I see the same presumptions being made about 'awareness', 'enlightenment', 'silence'. Why not challenge the presumptions?
please, joe, dont be blended by the word. the word is meaningless.
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#53 2011-12-23 12:32:07
- tree
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- Registered: 2009-01-02
- Posts: 9905
Re: Relation between thought and awareness
joe wrote:
awareness wrote:
joe wrote:
Are you aware of the tree? What you are calling awareness has a residue, that is the speculation. To have any idea whatsoever about awareness means that it is touched by thought, or as adam has put it there is a relationship. Think about it.
why are you doing this, joe
For years and years now I see the same presumptions being made about 'awareness', 'enlightenment', 'silence'. Why not challenge the presumptions?
challenge what you're sitting on
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#54 2011-12-23 12:33:13
- tree
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- Registered: 2009-01-02
- Posts: 9905
Re: Relation between thought and awareness
yes, make a theory about it in the lab of self
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#55 2011-12-23 12:33:36
- awareness
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- Registered: 2011-09-03
- Posts: 4038
Re: Relation between thought and awareness
so from which presumptions are you speaking?
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#56 2011-12-23 12:34:12
Re: Relation between thought and awareness
awareness wrote:
joe wrote:
awareness wrote:
why are you doing this, joe
For years and years now I see the same presumptions being made about 'awareness', 'enlightenment', 'silence'. Why not challenge the presumptions?
please, joe, dont be blended by the word. the word is meaningless.
oh for petes sake awareness...the word is a description and uncovering the meaning of the description is what we are trying to do. The word is not meaningless, that is the basic point I am making and the basis of the challenges I am presenting which to this point noone has bothered to actually address beyond making jokes. People, yourself included, have a meaning for awareness. Do not act like this is not true or we may as well talk about the difference between cheerios and frosted flakes.
Last edited by joe (2011-12-23 12:34:42)
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#57 2011-12-23 12:36:04
Re: Relation between thought and awareness
tree wrote:
joe wrote:
awareness wrote:
why are you doing this, joeFor years and years now I see the same presumptions being made about 'awareness', 'enlightenment', 'silence'. Why not challenge the presumptions?
challenge what you're sitting on
you only get weaker as time goes on like this tree...nothing new or fresh or vital in your thinking, only repeating stale mantras. I am asking you directly some things, will you investigate them or stay on this tac?
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#58 2011-12-23 12:36:26
- awareness
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Re: Relation between thought and awareness
joe, do you really think that awareness is seperated from truth, truth from love, love from peace and so on?
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#59 2011-12-23 12:37:34
Re: Relation between thought and awareness
awareness wrote:
joe, do you really think that awareness is seperated from truth, truth from love, love from peace and so on?
have I ever said that? Nope.
Last edited by joe (2011-12-23 12:38:23)
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#60 2011-12-23 12:40:57
- tree
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- Registered: 2009-01-02
- Posts: 9905
Re: Relation between thought and awareness
joe wrote:
tree wrote:
joe wrote:
For years and years now I see the same presumptions being made about 'awareness', 'enlightenment', 'silence'. Why not challenge the presumptions?challenge what you're sitting on
you only get weaker as time goes on like this tree...nothing new or fresh or vital in your thinking, only repeating stale mantras. I am asking you directly some things, will you investigate them or stay on this tac?
it seems you require a verbal description of acutality while living and breathing it....
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#61 2011-12-23 12:43:34
- tree
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- Registered: 2009-01-02
- Posts: 9905
Re: Relation between thought and awareness
(and sitting on it)
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#62 2011-12-23 12:47:14
Re: Relation between thought and awareness
tree wrote:
joe wrote:
tree wrote:
challenge what you're sitting onyou only get weaker as time goes on like this tree...nothing new or fresh or vital in your thinking, only repeating stale mantras. I am asking you directly some things, will you investigate them or stay on this tac?
it seems you require a verbal description of acutality while living and breathing it....
another presumption and another chance to actually investigate together missed. I do not need a verbal description of actuality, I am here on a discussion forum discussing these things because this is a discussion forum, but you are here only to espouse what you believe, it seems. This is a presumption on my part and the fact you are not actually engaging the topic only supports that presumption. Try a different tac and who knwos what may happen?
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#63 2011-12-23 13:01:02
- tree
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Re: Relation between thought and awareness
joe wrote:
you are here only to espouse what you believe, it seems.
? what belief have i espoused?
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#65 2011-12-23 13:04:13
- tree
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- Registered: 2009-01-02
- Posts: 9905
Re: Relation between thought and awareness
joe wrote:
your every message contains one and only one theme...that theme is your belief...
merry christmas tree!
and the theme is...
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#67 2011-12-23 13:06:42
- tree
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Re: Relation between thought and awareness
joe wrote:
hint hint---coming to a discussion forum to deride discussion is a well oiled pattern for you.
live the theory, joe
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#69 2011-12-23 13:08:04
Re: Relation between thought and awareness
tree wrote:
joe wrote:
you only get weaker as time goes on like this tree...nothing new or fresh or vital in your thinking, only repeating stale mantras. I am asking you directly some things, will you investigate them or stay on this tac?
it seems you require (emphasis mine) a verbal description of acutality while living and breathing it....
Well, joe, it seems to me that you have elicited the raison d'etre for the stumps presence in this forum.
Evidently, life is not to be described, but lived, and those who require a description, require being the operative word, are not living it.
So, his shtick is to be the anti-description elf that offers images that need no description or images of unnecessary description.
But, as you say, he also deals in stale mantras, or as bruce said, robotic phrases, which purport to describe living without description.
Then again, I find the stumps useful as a counterpoint to the truth I wonk…
Last edited by wilbro99 (2011-12-23 13:08:40)
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#70 2011-12-23 13:08:41
Re: Relation between thought and awareness
tree wrote:
joe wrote:
hint hint---coming to a discussion forum to deride discussion is a well oiled pattern for you.
live the theory, joe
it is not theory if you actually live it...living it is understanding context, not imposing it.
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#72 2011-12-23 13:11:52
- tree
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Re: Relation between thought and awareness
joe wrote:
you seem a nice guy ultimately, and make peace with even those whom you battle, eventually. But you do not discuss anything very far. Belief limits investigation.
why go far, it is here
(and there)
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#73 2011-12-23 13:13:15
- awareness
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- Registered: 2011-09-03
- Posts: 4038
Re: Relation between thought and awareness
joe wrote:
awareness wrote:
joe wrote:
For years and years now I see the same presumptions being made about 'awareness', 'enlightenment', 'silence'. Why not challenge the presumptions?please, joe, dont be blended by the word. the word is meaningless.
oh for petes sake awareness...the word is a description and uncovering the meaning of the description is what we are trying to do. The word is not meaningless, that is the basic point I am making and the basis of the challenges I am presenting which to this point noone has bothered to actually address beyond making jokes. People, yourself included, have a meaning for awareness. Do not act like this is not true or we may as well talk about the difference between cheerios and frosted flakes.
why do you presume what i mean? the word is not the thing
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#74 2011-12-23 13:13:18
Re: Relation between thought and awareness
tree wrote:
joe wrote:
you seem a nice guy ultimately, and make peace with even those whom you battle, eventually. But you do not discuss anything very far. Belief limits investigation.
why go far, it is here
(and there)
why be here if not to discuss? The context is the world, not just your world.
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#75 2011-12-23 13:15:10
Re: Relation between thought and awareness
awareness wrote:
joe wrote:
awareness wrote:
please, joe, dont be blended by the word. the word is meaningless.oh for petes sake awareness...the word is a description and uncovering the meaning of the description is what we are trying to do. The word is not meaningless, that is the basic point I am making and the basis of the challenges I am presenting which to this point noone has bothered to actually address beyond making jokes. People, yourself included, have a meaning for awareness. Do not act like this is not true or we may as well talk about the difference between cheerios and frosted flakes.
why do you presume what i mean? the word is not the thing
why not say what you mean? I understand the word is not the thing but in this forum, to actually communicate about these things, we MUST use the words. So if I have made presumptions, correct them and clarify, I have no problem with that.
What do you feel awareness is?
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