KFA - Krishnamurti Foundation of America
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Kindly be mindful of the following points regarding the forum. Dialogue is thinking together - it isn’t debate - and it's inquiring together without end point or agenda. People come into the dialogue from their own place of understanding, which is not going to be your place of understanding. We’re here to communicate together, learn together and gain insight into our own thought; to receive and share our observations, not impose our views on others. Address the comments in a polite, considerate manner. By all means, ask for clarification, but challenge the comment, not the commentator. We don’t know enough about the others to make those judgments and we’re here to learn about ourselves, not to correct another's perceived personality flaws. If a comment brings an emotional response, look at that. Do you feel the need to defend? To attack? Time for some looking inward. Self protection results in war. Besides, the war is in each of us. Stop that war, and the rest will take care of itself. (For some suggestions on the nature of dialogue, please click here)
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#1 2011-11-27 14:26:11
Dedicated to all of the idiots amongst us:
"Conformism, imitativeness, submission to rules and to teachings is the writer's capital crime. The work of a writer must be not only the reflection, but the larger reflection of his personality. The only excuse that a man has for his writing is to write about himself, to reveal to others the sort of world that is mirrored in his own glass; his only excuse is to be original; he must speak of things not yet spoken of in a form not yet formulated. He must create his own aesthetics - and we must admit as many aesthetics as there are original spirits and judge them for what they are, not for what they aren't." (Rémy de Gourmont; Book of Masks, Introduction)
What sort of world is mirrored in our own glass? How can we answer such a question without communicating it not only to others, but first to ourselves?
What does it mean, to communicate? Doesn't it mean the transferring of understanding from the sender to the receiver? If that understanding is of one's relation to oneself, of what it means to be who one is, then we must each have our own language of self-reflexivity.
If we then see who we are in the words of another, where we milk those words for our own meaning, does that not mean that who we are is a work of fiction? How then do we come upon our own language of self? How do we come to this thing called self-understanding, and how is it possible to communicate that understanding to another?
If I call you an idiot, even in the language of wonk, can I do it other than knowing what it means to be an idiot?
The King of Idiots: William Iodine Brown; Esq.
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#2 2011-11-27 14:35:40
Re: Dedicated to all of the idiots amongst us:
wait, what a radical notion this is...are you saying that we must understand our own idiocy before we can see the idiocy of another? That we must understand idiocy from the inside out?
Am I serious? Are you?
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#3 2011-11-27 14:55:14
- kirsten
- Member
- From: the netherlands
- Registered: 2008-05-10
- Posts: 2892
Re: Dedicated to all of the idiots amongst us:
yep, it takes one to know one.
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#4 2011-11-27 16:31:22
Re: Dedicated to all of the idiots amongst us:
BobD wrote:
willy wrote:
If I could figure out how to insult you idiots in the language of wonk I surely would do it.
To do that willy, would be a travesty and a wasteful use of the language of wonk. Fear not...this storm shall pass. lol
Well, sir, the challenge was too much to pass up!
I had a dream last night and my wonk-fairy told me how to do it!
If only the enlightened can speak to enlightenment, then only idiots can speak to idiocy!
I proclaimed myself the King of Idiots, and issued the proclamation!
Off with their heads!
I suspect this thread will not get too much traffic; the idiots will fear to tread upon themselves…
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#5 2011-11-27 18:27:44
- beans
- Member
- Registered: 2010-01-28
- Posts: 5835
Re: Dedicated to all of the idiots amongst us:
Momma always said, stupid is as stupid does.
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#7 2011-11-27 19:05:51
Re: Dedicated to all of the idiots amongst us:
gumption
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#8 2011-11-27 19:08:12
- beans
- Member
- Registered: 2010-01-28
- Posts: 5835
Re: Dedicated to all of the idiots amongst us:
natura wrote:
beans wrote:
Momma always said, stupid is as stupid does.
'I'm not a smart man, but I know what love is.'
Did he?
Now some questions are best asked of ourselves, aren't they?
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#9 2011-11-27 19:15:22
Re: Dedicated to all of the idiots amongst us:
Just look at the sort of poster this thread is attracting; the misfits of the forum...
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#10 2011-11-27 19:18:41
- beans
- Member
- Registered: 2010-01-28
- Posts: 5835
Re: Dedicated to all of the idiots amongst us:
I once saw or read an interview with Anthony Hopkins in which he talks about getting into the character of Hannibal Lechter. He was so engrossed in being the character that he stayed in it and found it hard to shake after the filming. Can't seem to find it on the Interweb, tho.
That is kind of what it is like sometimes if one really cares to communicate with someone who sees things vastly differently than oneself. Looking at the world and their words with their beliefs in mind.
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#11 2011-11-27 19:22:28
- beans
- Member
- Registered: 2010-01-28
- Posts: 5835
Re: Dedicated to all of the idiots amongst us:
...the Hannibal reference is not meant to insinuate anything about others' characters...just a vivid example. We are the world of course.
Correction ... in this interview he says he did not stay in character the whole time, but still can't find the interview from years ago...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NP-Dw81o … re=related
Last edited by beans (2011-11-27 19:29:40)
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#12 2011-11-27 19:23:49
- kirsten
- Member
- From: the netherlands
- Registered: 2008-05-10
- Posts: 2892
Re: Dedicated to all of the idiots amongst us:
beans wrote:
That is kind of what it is like sometimes if one really cares to communicate with someone who sees things vastly differently than oneself. Looking at the world and their words with their beliefs in mind.
yes the flexible mind is able to do so
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#13 2011-11-27 19:37:41
Re: Dedicated to all of the idiots amongst us:
blasted misfits, don't you know that you are enlightened already!?!?!?! The job is finished, you have seen the illusory I! You are right iodine, the traffic is light and what do you know---noone is enlightened!
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#14 2011-11-27 20:14:37
- RJ
- Member
- From: New Zealand
- Registered: 2011-01-29
- Posts: 2804
Re: Dedicated to all of the idiots amongst us:
forget idiocy
a 'group' of 'misfits' is positively oxymoronic.
(excellent thread though Master Brown, albeit 'self-reflection as the point of existence itself' is what Narcissus was heard to proclaim as he masturbated his way through his fleeting but admittedly fun life)
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#15 2011-11-27 20:28:12
Re: Dedicated to all of the idiots amongst us:
RJ, of course, I have a work around. The act of reflection posits the self and self-reflection divides that 'transparency' into self that is and the self that was, completing the temporal circuit, which replaces the presential.
The cure is to break the temporal connection and allow the presential to be the ground of being. Something strange happens to the me to whom things happen, and one is left with a puzzle to be solved.
Yeah, wonky, but that is what my understanding, idiot that I am, came up with.
…And, even if you are right, it's move fun than suffering your way through life. Turn on the endorphins, and let's party!
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#16 2011-11-27 20:43:16
- RJ
- Member
- From: New Zealand
- Registered: 2011-01-29
- Posts: 2804
Re: Dedicated to all of the idiots amongst us:
mate I was just wondering why no-one here ever thought to make such a good early winter, pre-Xmas excuse for a knees-up.
3 bottles of premium Scotch your thansgiving just been huh?
'give thanks, praise the lord and pass the ammunition!'
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#17 2011-11-27 21:05:05
- BobD
- Member
- Registered: 2008-10-15
- Posts: 1820
Re: Dedicated to all of the idiots amongst us:
wilbro99 wrote:
BobD wrote:
willy wrote:
If I could figure out how to insult you idiots in the language of wonk I surely would do it.
To do that willy, would be a travesty and a wasteful use of the language of wonk. Fear not...this storm shall pass. lol
Well, sir, the challenge was too much to pass up!
I had a dream last night and my wonk-fairy told me how to do it!
If only the enlightened can speak to enlightenment, then only idiots can speak to idiocy!
I proclaimed myself the King of Idiots, and issued the proclamation!
Off with their heads!
I suspect this thread will not get too much traffic; the idiots will fear to tread upon themselves…
I stand corrected and in awe once again.
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#18 2011-11-27 21:18:04
Re: Dedicated to all of the idiots amongst us:
And, we added the Laphroaig Quarter Cask to that. An old dog, who was partial to a good pinot noir, is now learning the many and varied tastes that is scotch whiskey. There is enough left for several parties though. If you ever get into this part of the world, name your poison!
Knees-up? Me mither's last name was Brown.
I find the difference between us, amidst all the non-difference, very interesting; we both use words differently the same way.
The ability to show one's face behind the bending of words into puzzles is not easy to come by; takes years of practice, at least from this side of that in-common fence.
The only way to not know is get upwind of a certain young donkey! It's page 213…
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#19 2011-11-27 21:25:49
Re: Dedicated to all of the idiots amongst us:
Hi BobD, figured, I did, that you would be one of the idiots idiotic enough to jump in.
And it was not that difficult; I got the idea while several of us were sitting around the family room testing out scotch.
Someone, the only expert in the group, said that you needed new tastes and smells to come to you, and I thought that if one already had a smell, that might just be the ticket.
Well, that gave birth to this thread. I think it was during the Talisker moment.
Welcome. What's on you mind?
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#20 2011-11-27 21:28:56
- RJ
- Member
- From: New Zealand
- Registered: 2011-01-29
- Posts: 2804
Re: Dedicated to all of the idiots amongst us:
(if I read you right)
alas my Coleman Banks rendition of Rumi was destroyed in one of the earthquakes,
one of these days I will amazon it back into life
and alack my tolerance for such finer things of life is that of a midge in a barrel of beer,
I drown and, drowning, forget that I do not know.
but a sniff and a snifter is all to the good
come hither one day and you will find a warm welcome
you have my word on it.
But I will leave you with the words of a far wiser sage than many, or any
'my words are so easy to understand and to follow
yet no-one understands or follow them
words come from an ancestry, deeds from a mastery
when these are unknown, so am I
in my obscurity is my value
that's why the wise wear their jade
under common clothers.
L.T.
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#21 2011-11-27 21:43:37
Re: Dedicated to all of the idiots amongst us:
beans wrote:
natura wrote:
beans wrote:
Momma always said, stupid is as stupid does.
'I'm not a smart man, but I know what love is.'
Did he?Now some questions are best asked of ourselves, aren't they?
I always prefer fist to ask somebody.
I never can be too late to ask myself.
Hi, how you doing
γνῶθι σεαυτόν (nosce te ipsum)
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#22 2011-11-27 22:21:35
- beans
- Member
- Registered: 2010-01-28
- Posts: 5835
Re: Dedicated to all of the idiots amongst us:
natura wrote:
I always prefer fist to ask somebody.
I never can be too late to ask myself.
Hi, how you doing
Hi
What do you think, can inquiry focused on another be a distraction?
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#23 2011-11-27 23:28:42
- BobD
- Member
- Registered: 2008-10-15
- Posts: 1820
Re: Dedicated to all of the idiots amongst us:
wilbro99 wrote:
Hi BobD, figured, I did, that you would be one of the idiots idiotic enough to jump in.
And it was not that difficult; I got the idea while several of us were sitting around the family room testing out scotch.
Someone, the only expert in the group, said that you needed new tastes and smells to come to you, and I thought that if one already had a smell, that might just be the ticket.
Well, that gave birth to this thread. I think it was during the Talisker moment.
Welcome. What's on you mind?
Nothing really on my mind. Just a nice warm fuzzy over the fact that the only dues for membership are the dues that I am in abundance of. Idiocy is the the most abundant of currency. I feel at one with my fellow human when we can acknowledge, together, our common abundance. (Theres a tear coming to my eye now) Fondly remembering my childhood, when my parents used to toss me up in the air to put me to sleep. Of course...the lower the ceiling...the more effective the method.
Good parenting is so important...
Last edited by BobD (2011-11-27 23:29:44)
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#24 2011-11-28 00:22:47
Re: Dedicated to all of the idiots amongst us:
beans wrote:
natura wrote:
I always prefer fist to ask somebody.
I never can be too late to ask myself.
Hi, how you doingHi
What do you think, can inquiry focused on another be a distraction?
But we are still talking about attentiveness, not focusing.
Can we see the difference?
γνῶθι σεαυτόν (nosce te ipsum)
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#25 2011-11-28 00:53:52
Re: Dedicated to all of the idiots amongst us:
In my in, those two are not separable, not that it makes a difference; so, your in it shall be.
Pardon the intrusion.
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