KFA - Krishnamurti Foundation of America

Good to hear from you Si...I find your observation interesting but not consistent with my own observations.  The only difference I find between the world of work and business etc and the meditation is sometimes you are washing dishes and some other times putting them away.  Life is the meditation and so wherever you are the dynamic is the same, though that is not to discount the difficulties and challenges which are of course more frequent when not sitting under the bodhi tree.

Hi Joe, I have to agree that there are nothing but differences ;-)

Are we going down the same path as usual, differences?

snguyen wrote:

I was absent from the forum for a while testing out the world of success, business, work and trying to see if it could be part of the other world of insight, silence, supreme happiness and indefinable quality. From what I saw and see again and again, the two worlds are completely different, and only the world in which freedom from the known is a living reality, is the world of truth.

My state of mind is now kind of staying in the middle between the two worlds. One is completely free of problems and the other is full of problems to pursue every day. I have had experiences of both. I see that only when one is totally free from the world of the known that one can act on it out of no motive and action is its own beauty, and that action cannot tolerate any half truth.

It seems so unfortunate for me, a human being, a society, who is caught, stuck, locked in a very rigidly binding false reality of life, the life as known and constructed by thought.

Unfortunate because the two worlds are incompatible and one is caught in between.
But it is good to know by experience and also by non experience, all reality as it is, to know oneself.

Gidday mate, it's nice to hear you

this is an old problem, so a good one, rich with the manure of the ancestors.
how many of those who live in the world but are drawn to the contemplative life have reached this impasse. Perhaps you could draw a graph that showed how any or all of the older the children, the better the work, the sharper the inner edge can equal the stronger the pull to... how did you put it.. be 'totally free of the world of the known'...

The renunciates look rich and the snow-line beckons!

My own feeling about this subject is that the more you remove yourself from this world the more you will have to eventually stagnate in the whirlpool of your naval. That to mix and mingle your life with the world, to let people, including their ugliness in, rather than be ever more aloof, is the way we must find to be well...

what do you think?

Oh, it is from experience of what happened to the quality of the mind when I pursued the world of business and success. When thought is dorminant with motivation and ambition which reach for the more, the quality of mind changes. There is no happiness in success. But a true meditative mind has that explosive happiness from unidentified source.

This is to Joe.

Last edited by snguyen (2012-07-02 20:38:32)

RJ wrote:

Gidday mate, it's nice to hear you

this is an old problem, so a good one, rich with the manure of the ancestors.
how many of those who live in the world but are drawn to the contemplative life have reached this impasse. Perhaps you could draw a graph that showed how any or all of the older the children, the better the work, the sharper the inner edge can equal the stronger the pull to... how did you put it.. be 'totally free of the world of the known'...

The renunciates look rich and the snow-line beckons!

My own feeling about this subject is that the more you remove yourself from this world the more you will have to eventually stagnate in the whirlpool of your naval. That to mix and mingle your life with the world, to let people, including their ugliness in, rather than be ever more aloof, is the way we must find to be well...

what do you think?

Hello RJ, nice to hear you again.

First it is an impasse, but then it teaches me a new understanding that I cannot get everything done first then seek truth. I cannot build the false (I know it is false for it is full of problems) to a maximum security and then leave for truth. That is to go backward.

Now when I see that clearly I am not sad. Talking about removing oneself from this world, rather, we talk about a love in which there is no mine or yours. I see that in loving my children there are that worry and sadness and it is just a selfish love. But when there is deep understanding, there is a love that is not selfish and can take action.

I see that to be free of the known by understanding is a state of mind where action and love are possible. You know, love, to love life, a quality of the heart.

snguyen wrote:

Oh, it is from experience of what happened to the quality of the mind when I pursued the world of business and success. When thought is dorminant with motivation and ambition which reach for the more, the quality of mind changes. There is no happiness in success. But a true meditative mind has that explosive happiness from unidentified source.

This is to Joe.

I am not talking about success, I am talking about being in the world.  Success is just another measurement, and a highly subjective one at that, so throw that idea out at least when talking with me about this, for that is not at all what I am saying. 

It has always been easy to sit on the mountaintop but the marketplace is relationship, is life.  You say you draw from experience and I say that experience has only just begun.  You 'decided' to stop because it became uncomfortable in the mind but any good meditator will tell you that stopping at distraction is the way of the mind.  One of my early mentors put it in the image of a granite mountain ten miles high and ten miles wide, and every hundred years a dove would fly by and brush the mountain with a feather.  We have been doing this for as long as it takes for that dove to wear down that mountain.  Keep digging.  Until you can take your understanding to the marketplace it will only set up illusory issues that are either seen, or not.  The marketplace is not the problem, we are the world.

there are several dudes with blue heads in this picture... which is intriguing... the cult of the blue-rinsed Swamiji?

otherwise it looks like one of our annual Island gatherings, we get together, get nude and get it on, helps reduce the inbreeding.

snguyen wrote:

I was absent from the forum for a while testing out the world of success, business, work and trying to see if it could be part of the other world of insight, silence, supreme happiness and indefinable quality. From what I saw and see again and again, the two worlds are completely different, and only the world in which freedom from the known is a living reality, is the world of truth.

My state of mind is now kind of staying in the middle between the two worlds. One is completely free of problems and the other is full of problems to pursue every day. I have had experiences of both. I see that only when one is totally free from the world of the known that one can act on it out of no motive and action is its own beauty, and that action cannot tolerate any half truth.

It seems so unfortunate for me, a human being, a society, who is caught, stuck, locked in a very rigidly binding false reality of life, the life as known and constructed by thought.

Unfortunate because the two worlds are incompatible and one is caught in between.
But it is good to know by experience and also by non experience, all reality as it is, to know oneself.

Let me go ahead and decipher that....

Two worlds....completely different.....my mind stuck in the middle...unfortunate me...stuck in thought...caught....its good to know.

snguyen wrote:

I was absent from the forum for a while testing out the world of success, business, work and trying to see if it could be part of the other world of insight, silence, supreme happiness and indefinable quality. From what I saw and see again and again, the two worlds are completely different, and only the world in which freedom from the known is a living reality, is the world of truth.

My state of mind is now kind of staying in the middle between the two worlds. One is completely free of problems and the other is full of problems to pursue every day. I have had experiences of both. I see that only when one is totally free from the world of the known that one can act on it out of no motive and action is its own beauty, and that action cannot tolerate any half truth.

It seems so unfortunate for me, a human being, a society, who is caught, stuck, locked in a very rigidly binding false reality of life, the life as known and constructed by thought.

Unfortunate because the two worlds are incompatible and one is caught in between.
But it is good to know by experience and also by non experience, all reality as it is, to know oneself.

Hello Si. I was thinking you'd gone to watch the ducks again.

Your post has me a little nonplussed. Surely you knew already that the two 'worlds' are entirely incompatible? Just as you must surely know that the sensitivities belonging to the true are unknown to the false. How could it possibly be that a 'knower' would not be aware of these things? just like s/he would be aware of the nose on their own face? Have I misunderstood something in your post here?

Roots wrote:

snguyen wrote:

I was absent from the forum for a while testing out the world of success, business, work and trying to see if it could be part of the other world of insight, silence, supreme happiness and indefinable quality. From what I saw and see again and again, the two worlds are completely different, and only the world in which freedom from the known is a living reality, is the world of truth.

My state of mind is now kind of staying in the middle between the two worlds. One is completely free of problems and the other is full of problems to pursue every day. I have had experiences of both. I see that only when one is totally free from the world of the known that one can act on it out of no motive and action is its own beauty, and that action cannot tolerate any half truth.

It seems so unfortunate for me, a human being, a society, who is caught, stuck, locked in a very rigidly binding false reality of life, the life as known and constructed by thought.

Unfortunate because the two worlds are incompatible and one is caught in between.
But it is good to know by experience and also by non experience, all reality as it is, to know oneself.

Hello Si. I was thinking you'd gone to watch the ducks again.

Your post has me a little nonplussed. Surely you knew already that the two 'worlds' are entirely incompatible? Just as you must surely know that the sensitivities belonging to the true are unknown to the false. How could it possibly be that a 'knower' would not be aware of these things? just like s/he would be aware of the nose on their own face? Have I misunderstood something in your post here?

Only someone that "knows" could post some dribble like that. Such an active imagination you have roots. Not so much because of what you said, but the fact that you are "a little unplussed"...or a little anything because of what someone else posted. What the hell does unplussed mean anyway?  Are you confused? disappointed? shocked? ambivalent? No. You had to go and use a word that I now have to look up. Unless RJ wants to help me out here.

thankyou teulada, that felt like i was reading about me:)

It is no longer fanciful imagination to picture a world dying or losing its beautiful attributes and species of life nor is it fanciful to see the truth that only mankind in general has become the greatest beast on earth not any invented God or devil of a son . Mankind in masses has become the most insensitive, and the most feared animal that ever lived. Seemingly asleep and intent on destroying his, or her own planet. Doing that for a little money or a cold callous insensitive job, slaughtering wildlife other fellow human beings, and indigenous tribes. Destroying the rainforest's for oil, palm oil or rubber or to make more cities . Capping mountains for coal and minerals and precious metals . Polluting the oceans and arctic regions in the lustful pursuit of oil . Fracking the earths plates with polluting chemicals, drilling the deepest parts of the sea .More wars, killing of our neighbors, clubbing to death baby seals . Please Say no to these things if you see these brutal things happening around you, or help speak out for those who do, and cannot speak out for themselves, like our cousins the gentle Whales. Also for the innocents in our genocidal wars, in prisons being tortured, or the children being blown up by drones, guided Poseidon misses, and land mines .