KFA - Krishnamurti Foundation of America

I would add that if in that loss of identity, a transformed identity is created, that new is still of the old.

Ok, I can buy into that, which is to say that it fits my understanding.

You are saying, I think, that the absence of the reflection necessary to entertain the particular sense of self is another way of saying that there is *no* one, where the one is what we may now call the particular.

awareness wrote:

yes, thats right! the particualars action is non-action, the ending of that particular, which is called one, IS action, in which there is no one.:-). please look at this IS, it is the "outcome" of the ending of the particular, which IS. in the ending of the observer IS the observation without the observed.

Ok, I could say that this way: the observed, that mirror the observer uses to find itself is missing, so the finding of the observer is not possible, or again, with that mirror missing, the reflection cannot be made.

Now the question I have is how this is to be understood. I can see that absence being taken as a transformation, which brings the reflection back into the game at a transcendental level. Is this how you see it?

wilbro99 wrote:

awareness wrote:

yes, thats right! the particualars action is non-action, the ending of that particular, which is called one, IS action, in which there is no one.:-). please look at this IS, it is the "outcome" of the ending of the particular, which IS. in the ending of the observer IS the observation without the observed.

Ok, I could say that this way: the observed, that mirror the observer uses to find itself is missing, so the finding of the observer is not possible, or again, with that mirror missing, the reflection cannot be made.

Now the question I have is how this is to be understood. I can see that absence being taken as a transformation, which brings the reflection back into the game at a transcendental level. Is this how you see it?

i cannot find a reason, why to use the word transcendental, because i dont see any reason to use it. when the empty particular mind moves into the fiel of the unknow, then its after this jump in the field of the unknown, and noted that it was there before that jump. so it can also be said, that after that jump, that jump was not needed, put perhaps it was needed, otherwise it cannot be said, that it was not needed.
so to go into that what is meant beyond the word "presence", a presence "out of time", then it behaves so, that the content of this presence, if i want to use this word, that the "content" IS "the ending of the observer", it happens simultaneous: the ending of the "input" IS the output. so our conscioussness is not in a fix state, which is our self-knowledge, as a stream, as a stream, in which every moment comes an input as an impression of the "presence in time", in this ending of time IS the presence "out of time".

Last edited by awareness (2012-06-07 05:21:26)

awareness wrote:

Eden wrote:

awareness wrote:

yes, i understand that. thats a description, of course. now, the in-dividual as a fact, not as the description, is action, total action, because there is no part, which acts, which would be non-action, so this action IS understanding, IS attention and in this attention, there is NO one.

that action by no one has been going on for eons, is still going on, and will be going on for eons more.  so what??

eden, its not so that i cannot understand, what you are saying. its only so, that , to say this from "outside" is something other, than to go through all that. I have not the impression, that you have gone once through all that, at least you has not talked about. so to say something intellectally, which could be obvious, but without doubt in the beginning, is like to say something, which was only touched by your eyes, but not deeply, inwardly, with your whole of being.

your impression is not accurate. so rather than answer the question, you have started talking about your impressions of me that you have or don't have. would you like to try again, and this time see if you can answer the question itself without getting sidetracked by what impressions you may or may not have of the one asking the question?

Last edited by Eden (2012-06-07 05:47:43)

awareness wrote:

Eden wrote:

awareness wrote:

eden, its not so that i cannot understand, what you are saying. its only so, that , to say this from "outside" is something other, than to go through all that. I have not the impression, that you have gone once through all that, at least you has not talked about. so to say something intellectally, which could be obvious, but without doubt in the beginning, is like to say something, which was only touched by your eyes, but not deeply, inwardly, with your whole of being.

your impression is not accurate. so rather than answer the question, you have started talking about your bogus impressions of me. would you like to try again, and this time see if you can answer it without getting sidetracked by your imaginary impressions.

hmm, the sidetracke happens, its the ending of impressions, which is important

and you are full of impressions. they run your body.

there is noting wrong with impressions if they are accurate. if they aren't it might hurt and or kill you. this too has been going on for millions of years.

Eden wrote:

there is noting wrong with impressions if they are accurate. if they aren't it might hurt and or kill you. this too has been going on for millions of years.

again, impression happens, this is so, because brain, as a matter of time, accumulates. synchronously, if its in contact with energy from the very beginnining, the accumulition is ending, thats why the mind, the brain remain fresh.

there is noting empty about your mind...it is full of fragmentation and all sorts of flavors of self-importance, along with all sorts of beliefs in imaginary transformation that you think your mind is undergoing. 

The proof is in the fragmentation.

all over the planet energy gets trapped and released, trapped and released.  woopdee doo....this too has been going on for billions of years in billions of ways.  so what??

hahahahahaahaha.  i really do crack myself up.  thanks for the endorphins life!  I'll take 'em and run.  nighty night!

which is why your mind is full of mediocrity and vulgarity and constant fragmentations and silly impressions.  and which is why you are unable to answer questions about the one movement of life....which cannot be divided into smaller movements to be analyzed and given false importance.   you are as confused as ever and couldn't spot fragmentation if your life depended on it....which it does. 

that's the funny part.  have fun!