KFA - Krishnamurti Foundation of America

you are just saying that to make RJ jealous...

Let me turn the page here.

Kio, a bit of word play dedicated to Sepulveda Pass.


To lose is to find, or so someone could say if they got the urge to play with words, or they could even turn it around and say that to find is to lose, and then, as if they wanted to add the period to the end of the sentence, say that those two are really two different ways of expressing the same thing.

It is a form of the basic paradox: to know is not to know and not to know is to know, or positing two disjunctions at once not only as both being true, but also as being two incommensurate ways of looking at the same thing.

That is the way the words play; but it is a fact that to lose is to find, and to find is to lose, and also a fact that those two facts are one fact, the question now being one of how that overarching fact is to be expressed.

There is a categorical change that best expresses as a stepping out of that, which, when stepped out of, ceases, and is revealed to have been an imagined whole.

To lose is to find. I come across an insight that removes me from that imagined whole. I have lost myself. The whole that remains is empty, a place of limbo. Where am I? I am not there. Help!

I find myself yelling for help, and in doing so, I have found myself outside that empty whole. That whole complex dissolves. I have lost myself and then found myself being lost, and I have found myself in losing myself.

Ah yes, playing with words is such a gas. Perhaps that is why UF is so popular with those who live in Nod!

[damn, you two beat me to it]

Last edited by wilbro99 (2012-06-01 21:45:29)

Please refer to Zen and K thread #118
my dedication to Sepalveda path
with tea ceremony if you may accept.

Kio

PS re: your post #28, I get the drift.  But feeling like I may catch cold.  So, I leave it with that.  Words like UF and Nod... I still have to open dictionary to find out the meaning (no progress.. and that may be a good thing, btw... LOL)

wilbro99 wrote:

Kio, UF is short for Unicorn Flatulence. I have this herd of pedigree unicorns I pasture on the Elysian Fields, where the grass is so sweet that the unicorns can create the smell of ambrosia so closely with their flatulence, that to whiff it is to be transported at once to Mt. Olympus, and there to mingle with the gods for that precious time.

I bottle the stuff and sell it by the 6-pack. It is bottled fresh daily, so results guaranteed. Each bottle guarantees about twelve minutes hobnobbing with the gods.

Nod is where Cain ended up after getting kicked out of Eden. I am a citizen of Nod, or so says the R00ts.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elysium

Wilbro,

I am trotting here at my own pace, I still mix up people's name here (that is why I ask where they are from or try to remember people with the physical location, with the image associated with the post).  So I go on at my own pace.  Sepalveda pass, Eden, Nod...etc is easy to use my image with.

Re: your post.  Yes...I follow that.
And I translate to my word/image.  One of which is what I call, "mirror mind."
Your expression I can follow.  I just wonder if you follow this metaphor, mirror mind.

[It is a form of the basic paradox: to know is not to know and not to know is to know, or positing two disjunctions at once not only as both being true, but also as being two incommensurate ways of looking at the same thing.]

So, it is to see/experience those two states in one glance/being
- and of course without losing the ground.
Not sure if it makes sense in your word/image continuum.

Some Zen sayings point this with few words/images:
-Shadow moves but the dust at the stairs does not move.
-Moonlight penetrates water yet it does not affect (or something like that)
-Waves on the surface, deep within the ocean is serenity
-Frog jumps in splashing water, old pond is there unaffected (my making)
-Shadows on mirror moves, mirror simply reflect that.
... and on and on...

It may be that I may be more image driven, I wonder.
Or, perhaps, I am less patient with words... and get bored easily but have to use it
and try to do it with less.  (Emphasis on intuition?  Imagination is power?)

So, I like poems or koans - a form of brute force?
Right.. this is one of the simple expressions. 
If you know it, end of story (or almost)
Cannot say if it is an immediate path, but that is a question. 
It may depend on the person, I guess.

The tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao.
The name that can be named is not the eternal Name

Now that is almost the opposite of K???
Or it could be a "Katz!" or Punch! (in some practice)

* Having said that, and practicing/living IT is the name of the game,
rather than the play of words, I had an interesting finding yesterday.
Hope to share here sometime soon,

Kio

RJ wrote:

Master Kio,
what is your motivation?

Good question! Thank you!
Sometimes, or more often than not.... my ego seems to be quite motivated to play its destructive power.
When I notice it, that is good... or at least good because "I" can deal with it.
If I am oblivious for a while, it seems the damage gets bigger. But eventually it shrinks down losing its energy, until the next opportunity pops up.
Perhaps you can help me to see it when I am out of control, thank you.

enough vinegar!

RJ wrote:

enough vinegar!

You have something against braggs? 

Ripples on the surface
soft is the water
old pond is there
witnessing
effortless
actionless
not desiring
unperturbed

Compassion and wisdom; poetry and K


I hiked for hours today, and no words can capture the subtleties and nuances.

beans wrote:

Compassion and wisdom; poetry and K


I hiked for hours today, and no words can capture the subtleties and nuances.

I was doing Aikido today, and no words can capture the subtleties and nuances...

be well!

suzakico wrote:

this one is for RJ (edited)

OK..
what if water represents nothingness... (or like "undefinable")
and yet see it the source of all forms
or like the source of creation because of its malleability
but it can sit still undisturbed as well
only when needed, it shows its power, form, meaning etc.

sounds like Tao as I write this...
or like formless self
(was it Shinichi Hisamatsu..?  right.
however I do not say he agrees with my view)

water is as opposite to nothingness as light is to dark
still water soft brings decay (still water hard is frozen)
and a formless self is the third oxymoron.

suzakico wrote:

suzakico wrote:

beans wrote:

Compassion and wisdom; poetry and K


I hiked for hours today, and no words can capture the subtleties and nuances.

I was doing Aikido today, and no words can capture the subtleties and nuances...

I also asked to myself..

"How can we find ways to use/extend Ki (with such subtleties and nuances - like love/compassion) in many more activities we are engaged in life?"  - from touching a door knob, to writing or greeting or anything we do?"

I don't think we can use or extend Ki, if Ki means the natural flow of energy without ego. The only thing we can do is negate the unnecessary uses of energy (via negativa).

Remain as soft water.

willy wrote:

yeah, joe, looks like RJ likes to fly fish

yeah but it grinds me...some of the things he (used to) say showed an insight into his own condition that I no longer see.  So Kio, when I see someone suffering I suppose what you see here is what I actually do.

Last edited by joe (2012-06-03 18:09:50)