KFA - Krishnamurti Foundation of America

suzakico · 2012-05-29 09:54:31

To me, calm and quiet mind is the base of all (there are many other expressions to point that but hope this will do).

Perhaps, due to my construct in brain, I put more weight in quality than quantity. As we get older, this seems to become more and more important.

Poetry is probably a representation of a dialogue within oneself, i.e., me and Me. So, there is less reaction (like waves) inside, but clarity and harmony - even in a paradoxical situation which is rather common in human life and perhaps the base of all poetry.

Now about compassion ("love") and wisdom...

I believe wisdom has to go with compassion, but there may be a gap, i.e., there are cases where compassion is there but there is nothing you can do... You just feel it and accept what is without coming to any insight, although that state itself may represent insight - like no aha but whole is aha. In such a situation, we may watch what is going on and shed tears inside quietly, or even the whole universe may tremble and shed tears...

Living as human can be a very paradoxical experience. People in this forum may prefer dialogue between human soul. But it may be OK to have a quiet space (like this one I propose - possible?) to go deeper into our own self reflection. Perhaps, in such a setting, there is less waves and the water may start to reflect what is in that calm and quiet mind.

Good day, good life,
Kio

=============
Reference:

Facebook; http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=775288409
Webpage, NHJ: http://suzakico.wix.com/newhero#!Home/c1go3
Blog: http://newherosjourney.blogspot.com/
Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/user/suzakico?feature=mhee

Some notable posts (to assist my memory):

#88 -: Aikido
#148/149: My awakening experience, its analysis (with wilbro), Comparison with Eckhart Tolle, my brief background/orientation on this forum
#240: On meditation (K's words contrasted to Tolle, Levenson, etc.)

Last edited by suzakico (2012-06-22 12:31:24)

beans · 2012-05-29 19:15:34

It seems that words, including poetry, are the outer movement of expression and receptivity is the inner calm. When a person feels rewarded for the feeling or form of their expression, it may become addictive and used as an escape as with many behaviors.

When I’ve spent too much time with words, they lose meaning. In fact, reading, writing, and speaking begin to feel like words on the brain are the equivalent of fingernails on a chalkboard. Wonder if there is such a thing as a “low word tolerance” … :-)

suzakico · 2012-05-29 22:27:28

beans wrote:
It seems that words, including poetry, are the outer movement of expression and receptivity is the inner calm. When a person feels rewarded for the feeling or form of their expression, it may become addictive and used as an escape as with many behaviors.

When I’ve spent too much time with words, they lose meaning. In fact, reading, writing, and speaking begin to feel like words on the brain are the equivalent of fingernails on a chalkboard. Wonder if there is such a thing as a “low word tolerance” … :-)

Thx Beans.. and welcome!

I like the spirit of your message!
In "Zen and K" thread I just posted a Haiku of Basho...

Old pond
the sound of
frog jumping in
(my translation)

I wonder if that tolerance may need to be broken...

Do you feel good to be home in silence?
I do.
Kio

beans · 2012-05-30 07:31:13

Thanks, Kio, and welcome to you!

Pardon the lack of Haiku, but the old pond absorbs the sound and the ripples of the frog at times. But then that is not the case right now. Oops, that was then, this is now, no this is now...it just can't be pinned down, can it? ;-)

suzakico · 2012-05-30 10:36:51

beans wrote:
Pardon the lack of Haiku, but the old pond absorbs the sound and the ripples of the frog at times. But then that is not the case right now. Oops, that was then, this is now, no this is now...it just can't be pinned down, can it? ;-)

You are asking me that question?
How about throw that question to the old pond in your mind and see what happens?

You may hear... "???!!!" in silence.

(I just realized that there is something in common between poem and joke. There is some punch line out there...)

More poem, anyone?
Or can any one bring the silence and serenity in any form to this thread, please?
What is equivalent of K's poem? A long series of dialogue?
Then it must be something to do with the frog, old pond and silence. LOL

Kio

RJ · 2012-05-30 15:29:07

there once was a small pond
with a duck in it
and by its bank a weeping willow
where lived a solitary cricket

they were both very lonely
but not for each other

“quack quack” went the duck, often
“cricket, cricket” went the cricket
at least as much, if not more

they were silent sometimes
living things die without sleep

but time is no cure for loneliness
day after day they “quacked” and “chirruped”
and strained to hear
an answer to their cries

until at last one day
oh God! a sound, nearby…

“ribbit, ribbit”
said the solitary frog.

wilbro99 · 2012-05-30 16:58:08

Paris is alive with the sound of frog!

beans · 2012-05-30 19:18:58

suzakico wrote:
beans wrote:
Pardon the lack of Haiku, but the old pond absorbs the sound and the ripples of the frog at times. But then that is not the case right now. Oops, that was then, this is now, no this is now...it just can't be pinned down, can it? ;-)
You are asking me that question?
How about throw that question to the old pond in your mind and see what happens?

You may hear... "???!!!" in silence.

(I just realized that there is something in common between poem and joke. There is some punch line out there...)

More poem, anyone?
Or can any one bring the silence and serenity in any form to this thread, please?
What is equivalent of K's poem? A long series of dialogue?
Then it must be something to do with the frog, old pond and silence. LOL

Kio

Asking you the question, no, Kio, that is straight from this pond to see if it resonates in your pond.

Yes, lost and found in silence.

suzakico · 2012-05-30 19:37:44

beans wrote:
suzakico wrote:
beans wrote:
Pardon the lack of Haiku, but the old pond absorbs the sound and the ripples of the frog at times. But then that is not the case right now. Oops, that was then, this is now, no this is now...it just can't be pinned down, can it? ;-)
You are asking me that question?
How about throw that question to the old pond in your mind and see what happens?

You may hear... "???!!!" in silence.

(I just realized that there is something in common between poem and joke. There is some punch line out there...)

More poem, anyone?
Or can any one bring the silence and serenity in any form to this thread, please?
What is equivalent of K's poem? A long series of dialogue?
Then it must be something to do with the frog, old pond and silence. LOL

Kio
Asking you the question, no, Kio, that is straight from this pond to see if it resonates in your pond.

Yes, lost and found in silence.

Got it!

Thanks,
Kio

suzakico · 2012-05-31 10:28:14

Silence in the pond...
no frogs.. no wind...
no ripples on surface

suzakico · 2012-05-31 12:54:10

Tao Te Ching - Lao Tzu - chapter 41

The wise student hears of the Tao and practises it diligently.
The average student hears of the Tao and gives it thought now and again.
The foolish student hears of the Tao and laughs aloud.
If there were no laughter, the Tao would not be what it is.

Hence it is said:
The bright path seems dim;
Going forward seems like retreat;
The easy way seems hard;
The highest Virtue seems empty;
Great purity seems sullied;
A wealth of Virtue seems inadequate;
The strength of Virtue seems frail;
Real Virtue seems unreal;
The perfect square has no corners;
Great talents ripen late;
The highest notes are hard to hear;
The greatest form has no shape.
The Tao is hidden and without name.
The Tao alone nourishes and brings everything to fulfillment.

He was quite a guy...
I wonder how he lived...

Eden · 2012-05-31 17:20:55

I wonder what he would say about someone a thousand years later wondering how he lived. My guess something along the lines of "foolish student".

suzakico · 2012-06-01 09:18:12

I took a walk last evening
saw trees dancing in the wind
each brunch swaying this way and that way
as if each lives each life
yet as a whole, they are one

and this tree, that brush
from a sweet pea to a big pine tree
they were dancing happily
with the song of the universe
expressing who they really are

In tao te ching
I remember a phrase about leadership

this one....

When the Master governs, the people
are hardly aware that he exists.
Next best is a leader who is loved.
Next, one who is feared.
The worst is one who is despised.

If you don't trust the people,
you make them untrustworthy.

The Master doesn't talk, he acts.
When his work is done,
the people say, "Amazing: we did it, all by ourselves!"

--

somehow this reminds me of that old pond
which does not speak a word
but it is there in eternal stillness

then I thought a fraction of second
if there is a pond I would like to walk around...
but I realized that the old pond is within myself

old pond
frog jumps in
the sound of splash (water)

Last edited by suzakico (2012-06-01 12:04:21)

suzakico · 2012-06-01 12:02:24

How about this? (Triggered by my Aikido experience)

Ki (life energy) flows where it can.
Follow it to where there is least resistance
like water in the stream...

Resistance is like blockage.
Ego is a form of such blockage.
Often hard one to crack...LOL
Right, it only cracks from within!

Ki is like life energy.
All living beings are expressing that
This is called LIFE.
It expresses through us.
We are the manifestation of such process/being.

Right, there is form and substance...in one
So, don't look at one but not the other.
Look at the whole (paradox) in one.
(who is watching?)
anyway, we cannot have one without the other

When Ki is flowing naturally,
there is no ego to be found...
conflict is broken...
everything manifests as it should
- following the law of nature/tao

Compassion and wisdom are basic way of such manifestation
again, there is no ego in there
so it flows naturally...
and permeate all

having written thus far..
I wondered if my words flow naturally... LOL

well...
let's stop here
it sounds like a good time
and I should go back to the pond
to immerse myself...

Play of words are dangerous
it may hypnotize oneself...
although it is interesting,
I may lose the ground
or my mind forgotten...

being playful may be ok
but sharpness is needed

--

BTW, Tao Te Ching says..

Those who know do not talk.
Those who talk do not know.

Keep your mouth closed.
Guard your senses.
Temper your sharpness.
Simplify your problems.
Mask your brightness.
Be at one with the dust of the Earth.
This is primal union.

He who has achieved this state
Is unconcerned with friends and enemies,
With good and harm, with honor and disgrace.
This therefore is the highest state of man.

sds · 2012-06-01 12:33:17

From the Tao Te Ching "Those who know do not talk. Those who talk do not know."

Hmmm, this means that everyone from the Buddha down to K who spoke, who talked, did not know. I do not think so.....

ehassett · 2012-06-01 13:01:28

sds wrote:
From the Tao Te Ching "Those who know do not talk. Those who talk do not know."

Hmmm, this means that everyone from the Buddha down to K who spoke, who talked, did not know. I do not think so.....

I think you may be on to something, sds. The difference, it seems to me, is that one can only point to truth, which means it must be seen directly for and by oneself.

joe · 2012-06-01 13:05:39

and when he said they do not know, this can be taken in a positive or negative light, you see...the interpretation machine wants answers and conclusions but they will always end up empty if we make something out of them.

sds · 2012-06-01 15:14:09

From Stephen Mitchells Tao Te Ching, he writes in the notes: "Describing the indescribable, teaching the unreachable, pointing the way to the Way, what does Lao Tzu think he is doing here? It cant be done. No way.

Hence Po Chu-i, poet and stand up comedian wrote: " He who talks doesnt know, he who knows doesnt talk, that is what Lao Tzu told us, in a book of five thousand words. If he was the one who knew, how could he have been such a blabbermouth?

Stephen Mitchell continues: Thats the problem with spiritual teachers. They have to be blabbermouths...."

I guess K was one of the biggest blabbermouths in history.... I say.....

suzakico · 2012-06-01 18:39:40

Taken from #608 (thread - "Dedicated to all of the idiots amongst us" )
K: Would an ordinary person, fairly intelligent, agree to all this? See all this?
B: I'm not sure.
K: Or would he say, 'What nonsense all this is.'
B: Well, if it were just thrown at him, he would reject it as nonsense - it would require very careful presentation and some people might see it, I think. But if you just say it to anybody...
K: Of course.
B:... they would say, whoever heard of that.
K: So where are we now? Wait. We are neither particular nor the general.
B: Yes.

--

B could have said, Yes and No... or absolutely... (my take)
..and that, only finger can point to...
(as it is beyond expression; or even expressed, it may be taken as joke)

Rinzai said, If you get it, you do not get it...
Hindu says, Neti, neti neti (always negative..)
Some says, "I am" or "I am that I am"
Prajna logic says, A is not A, thus A

and Tao te ching 41
The wise student hears of the Tao and practises it diligently.
The average student hears of the Tao and gives it thought now and again.
The foolish student hears of the Tao and laughs aloud.
If there were no laughter, the Tao would not be what it is.

56
Those who know do not talk.
Those who talk do not know.

so it is beyond the realm of logic..
like listen to the sound of one hand clapping...

and when you see, experience and in that state of being, where is your mind?
a good question!

and in that emptiness is ....
the sign which says...
"welcome to the old pond"

(All the above is a joke, of course....
yes, no, ???)

old pond
a frog jumps in
the sound of water!

RJ · 2012-06-01 18:54:52

I hear splashing but I do not see substance

beans · 2012-06-01 20:18:11

suzakico wrote:
well...
let's stop here
it sounds like a good time
and I should go back to the pond
to immerse myself...

Play of words are dangerous
it may hypnotize oneself...
although it is interesting,
I may lose the ground
or my mind forgotten...

being playful may be ok
but sharpness is needed

Just got back from a walk myself, Kio, with a storm about to blow in. All the trees agitated, a hush over the birds, and refreshingly cool gusts. You are like a cool breeze to the forum. Seems it’s like that when you’re brand new to it and very watchful, or able to refresh with a dip in the pond :-)

joe · 2012-06-01 20:47:21

I remember before computers existed much, when living off the grid for a while, just how crazy a tv looked the first time I came into contact with it. The flashing images so rapidly changing, I could see every frame shift precisely, like seventeen times a second it seemed. Kio is right, it requires sharpness or the hypnotism takes over.

I do not think leaving the forum is right for me. For a long time it seems the work is in the marketplace so leaving is only selfish, only for me and the remembered state I would be searching for. I do not know if that makes sense or not.

When I taught tai chi I always stressed that tai chi is life, it is in every moment and how one exists within that moment. What is moving you, your head or your being? What do you hear, what do you see?

Move from the center and balance is maintained.

Those words, of course, are ripe for the picking. How do I know that?

Because I have picked the fruit myself.

beans · 2012-06-01 21:03:08

It's all well and good if you are riding the bicycle with that sense of balance.

...and even so, nothing is permanent or to be taken for granted.

joe · 2012-06-01 21:06:01

beansy spills--...and even so, nothing is permanent or to be taken for granted.

joe gushes--aye matey, truer words are rarely spoken...

beans · 2012-06-01 21:20:17

well, you're still one of my favorite wise-asses :-)

KFA - Krishnamurti Foundation of America

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#1 2012-05-29 09:54:31

Compassion and wisdom; poetry and K

#2 2012-05-29 19:15:34

Re: Compassion and wisdom; poetry and K

#3 2012-05-29 22:27:28

Re: Compassion and wisdom; poetry and K

beans wrote:

#4 2012-05-30 07:31:13

Re: Compassion and wisdom; poetry and K

#5 2012-05-30 10:36:51

Re: Compassion and wisdom; poetry and K

beans wrote:

#6 2012-05-30 15:29:07

Re: Compassion and wisdom; poetry and K

#7 2012-05-30 16:58:08

Re: Compassion and wisdom; poetry and K

#8 2012-05-30 19:18:58

Re: Compassion and wisdom; poetry and K

suzakico wrote:

beans wrote:

#9 2012-05-30 19:37:44

Re: Compassion and wisdom; poetry and K

beans wrote:

suzakico wrote:

beans wrote:

#10 2012-05-31 10:28:14

Re: Compassion and wisdom; poetry and K

#11 2012-05-31 12:54:10

Re: Compassion and wisdom; poetry and K

#12 2012-05-31 17:20:55

Re: Compassion and wisdom; poetry and K

#13 2012-06-01 09:18:12

Re: Compassion and wisdom; poetry and K

#14 2012-06-01 12:02:24

Re: Compassion and wisdom; poetry and K

#15 2012-06-01 12:33:17

Re: Compassion and wisdom; poetry and K

#16 2012-06-01 13:01:28

Re: Compassion and wisdom; poetry and K

sds wrote:

#17 2012-06-01 13:05:39

Re: Compassion and wisdom; poetry and K

#18 2012-06-01 15:14:09

Re: Compassion and wisdom; poetry and K

#19 2012-06-01 18:39:40

Re: Compassion and wisdom; poetry and K

#20 2012-06-01 18:54:52

Re: Compassion and wisdom; poetry and K

#21 2012-06-01 20:18:11

Re: Compassion and wisdom; poetry and K

suzakico wrote:

#22 2012-06-01 20:47:21

Re: Compassion and wisdom; poetry and K

#23 2012-06-01 21:03:08

Re: Compassion and wisdom; poetry and K

#24 2012-06-01 21:06:01

Re: Compassion and wisdom; poetry and K

#25 2012-06-01 21:20:17

Re: Compassion and wisdom; poetry and K

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