KFA - Krishnamurti Foundation of America

bruce said: "Imagination is already reality, which is illusion-imagination is illusion, period."

willy quips: "Yes, and if that is the way you are going to orient yourself, then things better be as they seem."

bruce retorts: "There is no one to orient, so no orientation is possible. No direction."

Therefore there is no one do determine that "imagination is already reality, which is illusion-imagination is illusion, period."

The use of the tag term 'period' has absolutely no meaning for there is no one to place it.

Is that how it 'seems' to you?

wilbro99 wrote:

bruce said: "Imagination is already reality, which is illusion-imagination is illusion, period."

willy quips: "Yes, and if that is the way you are going to orient yourself, then things better be as they seem."

bruce retorts: "There is no one to orient, so no orientation is possible. No direction."

Therefore there is no one do determine that "imagination is already reality, which is illusion-imagination is illusion, period."

The use of the tag term 'period' has absolutely no meaning for there is no one to place it.

Is that how it 'seems' to you?

No. 'Period' means that is the fact, irrespective of how it seems to me or anyone else. The fact has no direction.

in order to type any word you type imagination is involved...always will be, better prepare to see that.

language, what is it but imagination?  The computer you type on, the home you live in, the roads you walk upon, all the product of imagination at work.

joe wrote:

language, what is it but imagination?  The computer you type on, the home you live in, the roads you walk upon, all the product of imagination at work.

Yes, but that doesn't tell the whole story: wars are also the product of imagination.

bruce sean wrote:

Eden wrote:

bruce sean wrote:

No, reality usually doesn't change, for millions of years is in place.

Dream on.

The illusion of the self, which is reality for most people, hasn't changed for millenia.

Dream on.  Your perspective is small. It is changing all the time, and it is becoming more complex even in just a few short centuries, let alone over millions of years. In fact it has changed just in the course of this bodies short life even(hasn't it for you?) so your statement is the height of absurdity.

Eden wrote:

bruce sean wrote:

Eden wrote:

Dream on.

The illusion of the self, which is reality for most people, hasn't changed for millenia.

Dream on.  Your perspective is small. It is changing all the time, and it is becoming more complex even in just a few short centuries, let alone over millions of years. In fact it has changed just in the course of this bodies short life even(hasn't it for you?) so your statement is the height of absurdity.

The self has never changed, and never will-into something better, lighter, more balanced-never. The self will always remain the self, and the only change that can happen to it is to disappear.

bruce quips--The part of imagination you talk of is trivial, isn't it? It helps create more comfort, better technology, but is that vital? It seems to me that vital is to leave peacefully, in harmony with one another-comfort is secondary.

it not only creates technology bruce, it also is directly correlated to any seeing anyone has ever had.  I certainly would not call it trivial.  When the first guy saw the wheel rolling and had that moment that eased the suffering of humanity hundred fold it was not trivial. When abraham lincoln saw the injustice of enslaving an entire race of people and stood up for it it was not trivial whatsoever.   When you see the elderly person struggling to get out of their chair and get up to help it is not trivial to them, is it? 

You throw so many babies out with the bathwater it is not trivial.

suzakico wrote:

suzakico wrote:

Yes, Zen and K, not K and Zen...
While this may be seen an unwelcome thread, yet this may be still meaningful if not for seeing the impact of like throwing a stone into the pond to see what may or may not come out.

Did I throw a bread crumb to a pond full of Koi?
No.. More like a red meat to pilanna
No it is not Koi, it is more like Kio eaten by breadcrumb...

LOL

drink deep...you are just getting started.

bruce sean wrote:

joe wrote:

bruce quips--The part of imagination you talk of is trivial, isn't it? It helps create more comfort, better technology, but is that vital? It seems to me that vital is to leave peacefully, in harmony with one another-comfort is secondary.

it not only creates technology bruce, it also is directly correlated to any seeing anyone has ever had.  I certainly would not call it trivial.  When the first guy saw the wheel rolling and had that moment that eased the suffering of humanity hundred fold it was not trivial. When abraham lincoln saw the injustice of enslaving an entire race of people and stood up for it it was not trivial whatsoever.   When you see the elderly person struggling to get out of their chair and get up to help it is not trivial to them, is it? 

You throw so many babies out with the bathwater it is not trivial.

Helping another is only possible when the other type of imagination is not active. Otherwise, it is all dirty, for a profit, material or psychological, which perpetuates confusion, instead of lifting it up.

you are not parts bruce, you are a human being, endowed with the same capacities as all humans to imagine.  Yes, how you understand what imagination is doing while doing its job is important but you are picking and choosing which is born of the type of imagination you are railing against.

bruce sean wrote:

I cannot be against imagination, because I am imagination, so that's not possible. I'm only exposing the ugly things it creates, which by far outweigh the little good ones it does.

what you are exposing is your own thinking, and nothing else.

Hi Kio...today it shall be confucius, just for kicks---"Only the supremely wise and the abysmally ignorant do not change".