KFA - Krishnamurti Foundation of America

natura wrote:

A state without identification which means without dualism is a very special one.
You cannot express it whatever you say.

YOU CANNOT EXPRESS IT WHATEVER YOU SAY

natura wrote:

Ordinary man cannot see the dimension of love and truth which is this special state.

ORDINARY MAN CANNOT SEE THE DIMENSION

natura wrote:

But people can see conflict and dualism.

natura wrote:

But usually people don’t want to watch that. They just prefer to talk, guess, and dispute about it if not outwardly then inwardly.

Maybe this would help, but I’m not sure, too

Eden wrote:

natura wrote:

Eden wrote:

The "special state".  Show us what the "special state" looks like, as expressed in a forum.  Or do you feel you are already doing that, at all times?

How can I show something to a person who cannot read just a couple elementary sentences?

Oh dear.  Let me try this question for you.  Is your time/energy here at the forum an expression of that "special state" you speak of?  Is pointing to the special state an expression of that "special state", or is your time here just a dissipation of energy of which you have excess?

That ‘special state’ is neither transferable nor expressible by any means human being has at disposal. What’s only possible, individual can be set into it, that’s all.

My time and energy on the forum dedicated basically to pointing out and explanation the principle of ‘Negative Approach’ to love and truth.

That’s my essential point and it’s the same as Krishnamurti’s central point.

The ‘special state’ is actually collateral here. Any explanation or imagination of this state is as much useless dissipating of energy as any other human talking or thinking.

natura wrote:

beans wrote:

natura wrote:

beany, any single human ego implies automatically conflict. Ego is a conflict itself.

Violence is a conflict, isn’t it?

Does it, natura, even the ego that is watched and not identified with?

A state without identification which means without dualism is a very special one. You cannot express it whatever you say.
Until that, dualism, conflict and violation exist in this of that form, that’s it.

Ordinary man cannot see the dimension of love and truth which is this special state.
But people can see conflict and dualism. The moment they see and understand its nature, it might be stopped.

But usually people don’t want to watch that. They just prefer to talk, guess, and dispute about it if not outwardly then inwardly.

Dear natura, yes. The ego is just thought, so it is possible to watch that thought or use that thought without identifying with it. It is when one believes that thought to be more than it is, that conflict and violence happen.

beans wrote:

Dear natura, yes. The ego is just thought, so it is possible to watch that thought or use that thought without identifying with it. It is when one believes that thought to be more than it is, that conflict and violence happen.

But if someone believes that thought is less than it is (and I know some participants around here trying to provide in abundance verbal proves to that), that conflict and violence happen again.

First we have to get rid from any belief at all and that is a very special matter which requires very special stuff from individual to realize it.
Non-violent life, you cannot live along just at your decision, beany. Who thinks they could, they wreak havoc and bloodsheds on the earth. Remember Mahatma Gandhi, just for example.

natura wrote:

Eden wrote:

I know you like to think you are approaching the Universe or Love or Truth...

Yet, you don’t. You are talking again what you don’t know about.

As a matter of fact I do, and I hit the nail on the head, which is why you don't have any reply to it.  I suggest you take up knitting, or something more useful.

CB wrote:

pearl wrote:

Oh CB, this morning I feel bathed, immerse in such exquisite love, sweetness, beauty....that I found myself weeping with sheer joy....

How wonderful!

Yes, and such a blessing.  Please, can I send your way all my love CB?  So much to share, to give away and one is intoxicated by this.

natura wrote:

beans wrote:

Dear natura, yes. The ego is just thought, so it is possible to watch that thought or use that thought without identifying with it. It is when one believes that thought to be more than it is, that conflict and violence happen.

But if someone believes that thought is less than it is (and I know some participants around here trying to provide in abundance verbal proves to that), that conflict and violence happen again.

First we have to get rid from any belief at all and that is a very special matter which requires very special stuff from individual to realize it.
Non-violent life, you cannot live along just at your decision, beany. Who thinks they could, they wreak havoc and bloodsheds on the earth. Remember Mahatma Gandhi, just for example.

OK.

A person who is not seeing reality must have a belief that the personal identity is reality, and not just a thought, at the base of it all, right?

No, I agree, a person cannot decide to be non-violent and think that stops violence. Just as a person who decides that 'all is good' (including violent, egoic behaviors) and decides to live according to that thought, isn't seeing reality.

Last edited by beans (2012-05-18 19:54:26)

pearl wrote:

CB wrote:

pearl wrote:

Oh CB, this morning I feel bathed, immerse in such exquisite love, sweetness, beauty....that I found myself weeping with sheer joy....

How wonderful!

Yes, and such a blessing.  Please, can I send your way all my love CB?  So much to share, to give away and one is intoxicated by this.

Uh huh, yup! :-)

Eden, Seeing and negating the man made psychologically, is the most creative and really positive approach to what is, we  could ever make as a whole  individual bringing  water to a burning earth . :-)