KFA - Krishnamurti Foundation of America

sds wrote:

snguyen wrote:

If I judge, I will be affected by people, their attitude, their activity. But no, they are just facts, from moment to moment. It has no time in it, and no conformity or loyalty to the past or any principle.

There, I throw out a few for the discussion.

Sorry I am not following you on this, I am not understanding you on this. Can you say more.

If I think about the past moment, it is thought and not the fact that already happened. But then the fact that I am thinking is also another fact. I am observing endlessly. Let's leave time out for now.

Can we relate any of this to this forum and when we are reading posts by others. How to distinguish opinions from facts of what they write?

Pure and direct observation you are suggesting without opinion coming in, without thought interfering?

How to see, the art of seeing what is written on here without the word interfering? Have you had any luck in doing this on here?

sds wrote:

snguyen wrote:

Why do I give opinion to someone's saying for example, you are stupid. It is just a fact that that person just said so. Pure and unapproachable by opinion.

Yes, the saying, someone saying you are stupid is a fact. But is it necessarily a fact that you are indeed stupid or is that an opinion.

One would have to look and see for oneself if it is indeed true, if one is indeed stupid, if that is a fact, right?

This one is hard. It is a fact that just happened that A said, you are stupid. Observe, listen and leave it completely alone. Then your energy is freed. Or I am afraid. That is a fact in me. If I see it as a fact, which means I can be in touch, in contact with it directly without opinion or word, it dissolves very quickly.

sds wrote:

snguyen wrote:

No one discussed so thoroughly as K about the facts of life. Some parents asked him about some misfortune happened to their child, he replied, see the fact. Anything at all is a fact. It is difficult at first to see that, but in the fact the truth is.

Interesting. I am following you. I am looking with you.

But how to distinguish a fact from an opinion lets say?

Is an opinion or non fact influenced or based on thought, imagination, abstraction?

A fact is .........?

I am still struggling with what a fact is actually, how to know it is a fact.

I think a fact is some think that happining repetitive times, and them become a fact

RJ wrote:

http://www.prem-rawat-bio.org/videos/im … gashan.jpg

Master Si,
as you warm to your topic
look! how much more there is to gain!!

Nice RJ. I have to give it to you, this one I liked. I found it funny and laughed. I dont think there is any truth to it, to your comment about Master Si, but it is still funny nonetheless. I enjoyed that. Thanks.
P.S. - Now move on

sds wrote:

snguyen wrote:

sds wrote:

Yes, the saying, someone saying you are stupid is a fact. But is it necessarily a fact that you are indeed stupid or is that an opinion.

One would have to look and see for oneself if it is indeed true, if one is indeed stupid, if that is a fact, right?

This one is hard. It is a fact that just happened that A said, you are stupid. Observe, listen and leave it completely alone. Then your energy is freed. Or I am afraid. That is a fact in me. If I see it as a fact, which means I can be in touch, in contact with it directly without opinion or word, it dissolves very quickly.

Again this is interesting. It almost sounds like you are advocating one to be empty, not to hold onto anything, any idea one is this or that.

To let it pass through you. To not let thought take root it sounds like.

I am not so sure that it dissolves very quickly, or what it is that dissolves. But I can see that a lot of energy would be freed up by not reacting to it, but just observing it, listening, seeing, and then being with the next moment, without the residue of the past interfering.

Yes, is nice to read the prosees here, is very help full, thank you

sds wrote:

Can we relate any of this to this forum and when we are reading posts by others. How to distinguish opinions from facts of what they write?

Pure and direct observation you are suggesting without opinion coming in, without thought interfering?

How to see, the art of seeing what is written on here without the word interfering? Have you had any luck in doing this on here?

I am learning too. Always, every day. When you listen quietly to just the words being written in posts, and experiment with covering up the poster's names, you will notice the operation of mind. Usually, mind looks for the poster's name first, and then accordingly prepares how to interpret the message.

My learning is that, after awhile, the content of what is said is not relevant anymore, it is actually very limited, but the quality of the mind changes. It becomes silent, pretty much free.

sds wrote:

Yes, beautifully stated. I can go up to the point though where K says to observe without the word.

Almost to square one.  Nice.  Keep up the good work.

sds wrote:

To me, death is one of the most amazing facts and it is so hard to stay with it, to face it, we all run away from that one inescapable fact.

I lost my Dad a few years ago, and I still have a hard time accepting that fact. Death is such an inflexible fact, there is no escaping it, and yet thought just cannot seem to, somehow still tries to avoid reality/facts.

Yes, I am sorry to hear that. It comes to every one. That fact alone, the fear of death, the incapacity of thought to understand death is enough to keep me inquire on till I find out what it is.

Alright, that is good. Good night.

snguyen wrote:

RJ wrote:

Master Si,
as you warm to your topic
look! how much more there is to gain!!

Unfortunately it is not as you think. I am learning all the time, and life is the teacher.

however you may think about yourself
your relationships may reveal a different reality
someone comes at you wanting to put you on a pedestal and you don't run, not walk, run the hell away, or give them a slap, or a tickle, or something...

then you are part of the disease and just deluding yourself that you have anything to offer anyone.

sds, what is to try? whats that? it sounds that something is difficult, and that cannot be the right way. it indroduce time. so let us to be clear: dia means through, to go through the logos, which means thought. so what can be the result of going through thought? is it a result of thought? or is it the ending of thought, the ending of something limited? so, we do not know something totally, which means every dialogue in the meaning of a result of thought is not knowing. why do we want to have a dialogue? to see different points of views. to see what? every thought according personal, psychological subjects, which are inventions of thought, which are illusions without a thing would result in an another illusion. if the first step is confusion, all the other would be confusion.

RJ wrote:

snguyen wrote:

RJ wrote:

http://www.prem-rawat-bio.org/videos/im … gashan.jpg

Master Si,
as you warm to your topic
look! how much more there is to gain!!

Unfortunately it is not as you think. I am learning all the time, and life is the teacher.

however you may think about yourself
your relationships may reveal a different reality
someone comes at you wanting to put you on a pedestal and you don't run, not walk, run the hell away, or give them a slap, or a tickle, or something...

then you are part of the disease and just deluding yourself that you have anything to offer anyone.

RJ, it is not as you think, as Sni pointed out to you.

You are jumping to conclusions, opinions, thought. Just as we are talking about in this thread. It is not a fact as you THINK/IMAGINE it to be.

I can tell you on this end, there is only a meeting of two friends, discussing, sharing, talking it over. There is no putting on pedestals. In fact, this poster abhors that kind of stuff.

snguyen wrote:

sds wrote:

Can we relate any of this to this forum and when we are reading posts by others. How to distinguish opinions from facts of what they write?

Pure and direct observation you are suggesting without opinion coming in, without thought interfering?

How to see, the art of seeing what is written on here without the word interfering? Have you had any luck in doing this on here?

I am learning too. Always, every day. When you listen quietly to just the words being written in posts, and experiment with covering up the poster's names, you will notice the operation of mind. Usually, mind looks for the poster's name first, and then accordingly prepares how to interpret the message.

My learning is that, after awhile, the content of what is said is not relevant anymore, it is actually very limited, but the quality of the mind changes. It becomes silent, pretty much free.

I like this a lot. This is very interesting, fascinating. It reminds me of something K would do, an experiment K would do. He liked to experiment in this sort of way, as you are doing on this forum.