KFA - Krishnamurti Foundation of America

tree wrote:

the desire to know...

...or necessary information if to converse. But if you'd rather not, that's fine too...

o)

wilbro99 wrote:

Ah, but stumps knows that there is something that cannot be known: the all.

Because you found yourself in the wrong way, you have the sense that something is missing.

Because you have found yourself in the wrong way, you fill that hole with an absolute other.

Or you fill it with other things that you want.

Ah desire, the breath of god...

(it must be the tomatoes)

uh oh....

(cue farmer)

beans wrote:

snguyen wrote:

beans wrote:

Si, it's interesting that you and I come from two vastly different sets of conditioning. I'm not sure I understand this gate business, but when I perceive bliss or something amazingly beautiful or there is emptiness, I just don't feel the need to stay. Not sure this is explained well at all....am going away to look into it.

I don't think you and I have different basic conditioning. But if you keep collecting knowledge then that knowledge acts in you. You see something new for a moment from that knowledge but soon it becomes memory. Is that not your new conditioning?

Without knowledge, accumulation of memory which dulls the mind, I find that the beauty, the amazing of life is always there, not exhaustible. Sometimes I fall back due to headache for a day or two, but with learning the regain of beauty is always there.

Who is collecting knowledge?

"...but with learning the regain of beauty is always there." Who is regaining?

If so, how can it be different conditioning? What's the difference?

There is learning always new. I can look at an old piece anew. I can look at the image I must have about you, at least the word beans, anew every time and this requires attention, requires a looking. The teaching comes directly from my observation of fear, pleasure, images, states, reaction of relationships... right now in my senses, feeling, and it is going on abundantly. I don't need to read books. I can look at how fear prevents action, how dependency produces guilt, how memory makes things dull and fixed opinions create anger, expectation will hurt. The deep interest in this learning is the release of energy and freedom. They are not mechanical and the looking at them bring about many sudden angles of insights.

When there is no thing, no inward challenge, the look at the outside world goes on in beauty and silence.

This movement is not collecting knowledge because every time I will look again anew, look at an old piece with a new mind, current energy, not with canned conclusion.

'Who is regaining'? The mind. It is very interesting about the mind, it can regain energy, health, strength and newness instantly at a seeing, an insight, right from a state of tiredness and sickness due to a confusion. You see in a flash, and the whole thing, mind, energy are all full of life again.

stumps, you are such a good sport that I cannnnnnot resist picking on you now and then...

...now and then, get it?

[mandatory chuckle]

Earlier you said, "...I find that the beauty, the amazing of life is always there, not exhaustible. Sometimes I fall back due to headache for a day or two, but with learning the regain of beauty is always there."

Why do you think there is the pain of headaches?

Last edited by beans (2012-04-04 07:34:29)

beans wrote:

On the other hand, there are people who have memorized the right answers according to K (or the Bible, etc) and are able to recite them on demand. This is collecting knowledge. It gets in the way.

One of the differences in conditioning between you and me is that you seem to be always looking for beauty and the experience of bliss, whereas I’m not.

People identify with many things they find meaning therein but there is always a gap between the self and its identification. Where there is a gap there must be conflict: protection, possession, emotion, belief, doubt and fear of losing. We see the whole travail of that. One time I read about the Buddha and later sat down and thought about how and what he had gone through to enlightenment, I felt a huge depressing conflict and just dropped it. But it is not just people out there. It is you and me and if you look carefully, without limiting your look at any thing that is not “truth”, then you will see that nothing can stand. There, freedom is from the known, not as something you hear and see logically but because you extensively go into it without stopping at any point. Stopping at any point becomes a knowledge from which you act.
This leads me to your next saying that I am always looking for beauty…

When I am suffering and see the futile of escapes or when I am suffering and all words mean nothing, I look at my suffering and in that act there is freedom. Suffering comes in all kinds: desire, money, security, fear, sex, addiction… And with the ending of suffering, beauty is. When I am suffering, the intelligent act of looking deep into myself is intelligence, and not seeking. But the problem is, many don’t know what sorrow is. Maybe like you said, people identify with many things and explain, escape away from the facts of life. They are seeking and have found their refuges.

joe wrote:

snguyen wrote:

joe wrote:

...doesn't that kind of talk set up or reflect a seeking mind?

does it to you? You got to find out for my telling you the answer will be seeking for you then.

It does not send me seeking, no...and to me it is not an answer, it is a thought of what should or will be.  It is why I am asking you the question.

When I am hungry I will look for food. And the hunger here is big for me, for example, the question of death, the truth about existence and not one that thought cooks up, love and beauty, and goodness. To inquire into all these requires a lot of work does it not? So the analogy of working the land the right way is not seeking, but work. And this work later produces energy and its own passion. It calls on you or me. The call of life out there.

The counter question is: do I have any harbor to settle down? If so, what is it? Is it not a result, a recognition of what I think is true, and stay?

But life is a movement, not in time, not having a parking space. Not I move life: that is time. Life moves on its own energy.

Seriousness means serious fun. Haha kidding. We are not chasing a dream and by this I mean I am not stuck in a groove. A state of mind can become a groove, a pattern where it finds conflict when it needs to move on to the next things to do in life. Only when you see that you are stuck in a groove is there freedom from it. Flexibility is then freedom from pattern.

Life is a movement when life is very light. A light mind is surprised at its own refreshing rate, quickly forgetting the past moment or talk, and enjoying from zero again.

I think understanding oneself comes with one's own work on what are pointed out by life itself.

never fear Snuman
there are many here to help

beans wrote:

snguyen wrote:

beans wrote:

Who is collecting knowledge?

"...but with learning the regain of beauty is always there." Who is regaining?

If so, how can it be different conditioning? What's the difference?

There is learning always new. I can look at an old piece anew. I can look at the image I must have about you, at least the word beans, anew every time and this requires attention, requires a looking. The teaching comes directly from my observation of fear, pleasure, images, states, reaction of relationships... right now in my senses, feeling, and it is going on abundantly. I don't need to read books. I can look at how fear prevents action, how dependency produces guilt, how memory makes things dull and fixed opinions create anger, expectation will hurt. The deep interest in this learning is the release of energy and freedom. They are not mechanical and the looking at them bring about many sudden angles of insights.

When there is no thing, no inward challenge, the look at the outside world goes on in beauty and silence.

This movement is not collecting knowledge because every time I will look again anew, look at an old piece with a new mind, current energy, not with canned conclusion.

'Who is regaining'? The mind. It is very interesting about the mind, it can regain energy, health, strength and newness instantly at a seeing, an insight, right from a state of tiredness and sickness due to a confusion. You see in a flash, and the whole thing, mind, energy are all full of life again.

OK, about different conditioning – yes, at the bottom of it, we are human, so much is the same. However, this particular organism tends to not value knowledge or experience to the extent many others do. It is funny, but I’ve done a bit of traveling, and when someone asks me when I went to Japan, for example, I can only give them a wide timeframe, can’t remember how long the flight was just that it was long, and can’t remember details such as the names of the cities or many experiences. It’s just not important, it seems.

It is the same with K books (and actually I have no desire to read or watch K right now) and guru videos, watching them is not to learn by rote or memorize, it’s to reflect against and see if it matches my understanding, and what their “take” is. This is relationship, just like there is relationship with the people on the forum and in the day-to-day. It is not a matter of collecting, and it seems this is the same thing you are saying.

On the other hand, there are people who have memorized the right answers according to K (or the Bible, etc) and are able to recite them on demand. This is collecting knowledge. It gets in the way.

One of the differences in conditioning between you and me is that you seem to be always looking for beauty and the experience of bliss, whereas I’m not.