KFA - Krishnamurti Foundation of America

joe wrote:

sounds like you and RJ are suffering from the same mindset, tree...Beans is right, we impart magic, just as we imparted superstition for so long, onto events we can not quantify.  Chuang tuz said it best, I think---the perfect happiness, is the absence of happiness.

joe...'magical' is a term that beans brought in, and now you add 'happiness'... i have never used these terms

naming is not my preoccupation

ok

i've got the tee shirt

joe wrote:

tree wrote:

beans wrote:

tree, I've seen some amazing natural wonders, including a moon that appeared this large once. It's not magical and there's nothing other-worldly about it, though enjoyable while it lasts.

not magical?.......it must be a drag being beans

sounds like you and RJ are suffering from the same mindset, tree...Beans is right, we impart magic, just as we imparted superstition for so long, onto events we can not quantify.  Chuang tuz said it best, I think---the perfect happiness, is the absence of happiness.

seriously mate, I've dubious doubts you are closer than half way round the world to feeling me let alone knowing my mindset.
Wuz trying to talk with you a moment ago but you fucked off to heckle Pearl and write about your nature experience.

How rude! My indignation knows only the bounds of this lovely paragraphical exodus.

and Beans is right?
Jaysus!
Beans is patently such a try-hard it's painful to watch her flailing about for purchase. She's still being entertained by watching a Guru talk to a disciple (5 seconds of that video is a good test of sanity, you either have a gag-reflex and push delete or you're an asshat who still thinks your shit smells like roses)

Get a grip Joe, a penchant for honesty will only take you so far and then you either know you don't know or you just carry on interminably with the self-centred and self-righteous bollox.... yawn.

joe wrote:

snguyen wrote:

joe wrote:

to be present to oneself implies some things...first, it implies an understanding of the nature of the reactive self from an experiential perspective.  You must know that you react, in other words, before you can be present to its rising.  Presence to the arising reactive self ends the movement before it gets any steam.

But then after that, what is going on? Are you present to yourself only when there is a challenge?

you are present to the wind when it blows...when it is not blowing, what is there to be present about regarding the wind? Do you see what is meant?

The wind is part of life and it is always new. When it is not blowing there is silence, but this silence is not dead. This silence has that shaking movement of energy. Why is it that no one is talking about some energy? It is not a mystery imagined by thought. It is present and the mind, the senses feel it. It can be used for action too.

beans wrote:

Si, it's interesting that you and I come from two vastly different sets of conditioning. I'm not sure I understand this gate business, but when I perceive bliss or something amazingly beautiful or there is emptiness, I just don't feel the need to stay. Not sure this is explained well at all....am going away to look into it.

I don't think you and I have different basic conditioning. But if you keep collecting knowledge then that knowledge acts in you. You see something new for a moment from that knowledge but soon it becomes memory. Is that not your new conditioning?

Without knowledge, accumulation of memory which dulls the mind, I find that the beauty, the amazing of life is always there, not exhaustible. Sometimes I fall back due to headache for a day or two, but with learning the regain of beauty is always there.

Si, let me toss a wonk your way; you mentioned the timeless in a way that sparked this off:

The timeless/presential world and the timefull/temporal world cannot be told apart until the self-finding reflection that adds presence to the world is separated from the reflection that finds the body in that environment.

It's a *render unto* situation, almost like the place where you find yourself has two different places to find yourself, and when you try to occupy both at once, it is sort of like creating a confusion that requires the separating of those two in order to bring the confusion to an end.

end of wonk

pearl wrote:

RJ wrote:

seriously mate, I've dubious doubts you are closer than half way round the world to feeling me let alone knowing my mindset.
Wuz trying to talk with you a moment ago but you fucked off to heckle Pearl and write about your nature experience.

...and then he is off to rescue beans the other moment....RJ, did you ask joe if he suffers from ADD by any chance?  :-)

awww, still carrying the torch samata?  Rescue beans?  You do have an active imagination you do.

joe wrote:

pearl wrote:

RJ wrote:

seriously mate, I've dubious doubts you are closer than half way round the world to feeling me let alone knowing my mindset.
Wuz trying to talk with you a moment ago but you fucked off to heckle Pearl and write about your nature experience.

...and then he is off to rescue beans the other moment....RJ, did you ask joe if he suffers from ADD by any chance?  :-)

awww, still carrying the torch samata?  Rescue beans?  You do have an active imagination you do.

...goes the fella of many reactions, defenses! Btw, good reaction bro, keep it up! :-)

joe wrote:

snguyen wrote:

joe wrote:

you are present to the wind when it blows...when it is not blowing, what is there to be present about regarding the wind? Do you see what is meant?

The wind is part of life and it is always new. When it is not blowing there is silence, but this silence is not dead. This silence has that shaking movement of energy. Why is it that no one is talking about some energy? It is not a mystery imagined by thought. It is present and the mind, the senses feel it. It can be used for action too.

The point is that you can only be present to the actual context...the energy is always there when the functioning allows for it, no need to speak of it and create a dream for someone, is there? Haven't you seen what that does to a person who sucks it in as reality before understanding it experientially?

No, everyone has this energy. It comes in fear, sorrow, pain, anger, or pleasure. Even when there is no challenge, no actual context, what is is still there in me if I am awake, sensitive to look. And I look when the actual context is there, must. The context, or the book of life, when I am very sensitive, alert to it, not content, not conclusive, is very alive. If I look at it all the time with learning, the energy is released. But essentially it is in oneself.

The interesting thing about looking is that it never gets bored. It is a living thing.

joe wrote:

as you wish samata...

You're welcome, bro.  Hope all is well on your side of the world.

wilbro99 wrote:

Si, let me toss a wonk your way; you mentioned the timeless in a way that sparked this off:

The timeless/presential world and the timefull/temporal world cannot be told apart until the self-finding reflection that adds presence to the world is separated from the reflection that finds the body in that environment.

It's a *render unto* situation, almost like the place where you find yourself has two different places to find yourself, and when you try to occupy both at once, it is sort of like creating a confusion that requires the separating of those two in order to bring the confusion to an end.

end of wonk

Willy,

The timefull/temporal comes into being when the looking at the arising of things like fear for example, splits the arising into two places and time is required to bridge them. I will overcome fear. That way, thought will think, come back to the challenge: fear.

The timeless is a total response, a complete ride with all senses in one with the arising. This arising will then subside leaving behind a sense of surprise as where it came from and where  it disappeared to. The mind has no capacity to take hold of the whole phenomenon. It is buzzing with the observation. It forgot.

In time, you can occupy both places: yourself and the observed. In non division, which requires a good observing state of mind, there is only one ride to the end. A different ride might and will come back in life but also ends in no time, meaning there is no memory. No memory because the presence is so full of aliveness.