KFA - Krishnamurti Foundation of America

Yes, it's pleasure.  Now I don't mean to condemn pleasure but simply looking.  So where there is pleasure there is also sorrow, pain, effort all that inevitably.  But all that has a cause.  So everything mankind does is towards attaining pleasure thru effort and avoiding pain.  And ofcourse where there is the desire for pleasure there is all the brutality.

Last edited by pearl (2012-03-25 19:37:05)

Bruce, there's another movie called,"code unknown" by the director called Michael Haneke if you can watch it.  But be informed that these are what I call intelligent cinema not the typical average movie goers fantasy fiction.  Well, atleast I enjoy movies as such.  There was another one called "Magnolia" by Paul thomas which was kinda cool, if you can get your hands on it.  Thankyou for listening, and a good night.

pearl wrote:

Yes, it's pleasure.  Now I don't mean to condemn pleasure but simply looking.  So where there is pleasure there is also sorrow, pain, effort all that inevitably.  But all that has a cause.  So everything mankind does is towards attaining pleasure thru effort and avoiding pain.  And ofcourse where there is the desire for pleasure there is all the brutality.

So happiness is actually pleasure. Is that it? Humans usually proclaim that suffering is necessary. That through conflict we grow and all that.

bruce sean wrote:

pearl wrote:

Yes, it's pleasure.  Now I don't mean to condemn pleasure but simply looking.  So where there is pleasure there is also sorrow, pain, effort all that inevitably.  But all that has a cause.  So everything mankind does is towards attaining pleasure thru effort and avoiding pain.  And ofcourse where there is the desire for pleasure there is all the brutality.

So happiness is actually pleasure. Is that it? Humans usually proclaim that suffering is necessary. That through conflict we grow and all that.

Right.  Let me explain.  'A' has a terrible job where he slogs from 9-5 and often abused by the others, the boss, the co workers.  He comes home to a wife who is demanding, pushy and then he has all his children who depend upon him.  This is his life.  And ocassionally he goes somewhere where he can relieve himself of his stress, to a party, to a resort, to a forum, or a strip club, or on a holiday, and this is his happiness.  Well, if he's bored of his wife, he'll find a mistress to keep him happy.  So basically his happiness is something he does to avoid his pain that gnaws at him day in and day out.  He is so miserable inside and out and anything that can get him away from this misery is what he calls happiness.

Last edited by pearl (2012-03-25 20:48:10)

pearl wrote:

bruce sean wrote:

Thanks, I'll try to find them. But usually I don't watch movies or read books to understand life better, or people better, 'grow' as a person, all that. To me, a good movie is an action movie, car chases, logical schemes to commit some infraction-in short, movies that don't pretend to teach you anything, just entertain you.
  That's because usually movies that pretend to be deep are actually quite shallow. 'Carnage' was an exception, but even there, there is no solution, and so its depth is quite small.

  Merryl Streep has made quite a career by portraying the human drama like no one else: but that's it, the drama continues, and so her entire life is worthless. Of course, don't tell her that, she won't believe you!

I totally agree movies are not there to make you grow into a whole person.  It's just that in general it's good to know some people make movies to tell it like it is, and it's also good to know there are also some intelligent film makers with good, meaning somehwat real stories to tell, like what goes on behind closed dooors of people.  I can enjoy a movie of car chasing as well if it's made well, but I happen to be pretty critical when it comes to movies and easily get bored.  But on the whole, it's just a movie still, isn't it, and naturally people can have different preferences.

It depends what you expect from a movie: it all comes down to this. I don't expect much from them-their primary function, to me, is to entertain: anything beyond that is not necessary, because real learning happens in life, in action. Of course, learning does take place when seeing a movie, too, but more like about patterns stuck in directors'minds, cliches, little details, mistakes, etc.
  I am not critical of movies because there isn't perhaps anything which might NOT be criticized: it's like a ref having to show the ejection card to all the players: then there would be no game to play.

bruce sean wrote:

pearl wrote:

bruce sean wrote:

Thanks, I'll try to find them. But usually I don't watch movies or read books to understand life better, or people better, 'grow' as a person, all that. To me, a good movie is an action movie, car chases, logical schemes to commit some infraction-in short, movies that don't pretend to teach you anything, just entertain you.
  That's because usually movies that pretend to be deep are actually quite shallow. 'Carnage' was an exception, but even there, there is no solution, and so its depth is quite small.

  Merryl Streep has made quite a career by portraying the human drama like no one else: but that's it, the drama continues, and so her entire life is worthless. Of course, don't tell her that, she won't believe you!

I totally agree movies are not there to make you grow into a whole person.  It's just that in general it's good to know some people make movies to tell it like it is, and it's also good to know there are also some intelligent film makers with good, meaning somehwat real stories to tell, like what goes on behind closed dooors of people.  I can enjoy a movie of car chasing as well if it's made well, but I happen to be pretty critical when it comes to movies and easily get bored.  But on the whole, it's just a movie still, isn't it, and naturally people can have different preferences.

It depends what you expect from a movie: it all comes down to this. I don't expect much from them-their primary function, to me, is to entertain: anything beyond that is not necessary, because real learning happens in life, in action. Of course, learning does take place when seeing a movie, too, but more like about patterns stuck in directors'minds, cliches, little details, mistakes, etc.
  I am not critical of movies because there isn't perhaps anything which might NOT be criticized: it's like a ref having to show the ejection card to all the players: then there would be no game to play.

Neither do I expect much from movies, but it's just some actors are so bad and the story lines are so boring, so boring that I never go to watch movies on bigscreen anymore! :-)  I'd rather take a walk in the park or watch the birds in flight and children at play.  Btw, I'm still looking  for the movie Carnage to come out in video clubs as I could never get myself to go to watch it on the BIG screen due to timings, etc.  Last time I looked for it they din't have it, yet.

pearl wrote:

bruce sean wrote:

But does he want to completely rid himself of pain?

Oh, that's not easy whatsoever as it would mean he has to get rid of his job, his pushy, demanding wife, his own personal ambition, security and tha't s not possible as he's already neck deep into all this, and to top it all his image and what others think of him, his status, his prestige is all at stake and if you take away all this from him he'd not know what to do with himself...he maybe driven to commit suicide even, so he's content with how things are in his life.  A little pleasure is beter than no pleasure to him.

That's why I was saying that the human mind derives pleasure even from pain, and so to get rid of pain would mean to get rid of a certain pleasure, right off.

It's fun to rehash.

bruce sean wrote:

Here, it came out two weeks ago, in DVD format. But somehow I didn't rent it-even though it would've been for free from a friend-and instead I've got some meaningless action movie, which I've already forgotten about...

  As for actors, they're always bad because...they're acting! And you can spot the lack of sincerity even in the best actors, which is normal because...they're not sincere since they're acting!

Then it must be out here as well on DVD.  I'll check next time.  But, Bruce watching action movies and forgetting all about is cute, and somewhat funny, like Krishnamurti who read silly comic books and watched some wild west movies.  I mean it's cute, nothing wrong with it.

As for actors some actors suit some roles only like they were made for it.  I thought William Dafoe did a great job in the movie, "The last Temptaion of Jesus christ" as Sean Penn did in "I am Sam".  The actresses are too vain esp the new ones.  They're more liked for their looks and glamour than their acting skills.  I assume they're in it for money and fame.

Last edited by pearl (2012-03-26 16:09:21)

pearl wrote:

bruce sean wrote:

pearl wrote:

Oh, that's not easy whatsoever as it would mean he has to get rid of his job, his pushy, demanding wife, his own personal ambition, security and tha't s not possible as he's already neck deep into all this, and to top it all his image and what others think of him, his status, his prestige is all at stake and if you take away all this from him he'd not know what to do with himself...he maybe driven to commit suicide even, so he's content with how things are in his life.  A little pleasure is beter than no pleasure to him.

That's why I was saying that the human mind derives pleasure even from pain, and so to get rid of pain would mean to get rid of a certain pleasure, right off.

Yes, this is evident.  His pleasure is his pain and vice versa.  But he cannot get rid of this because he doesn't know anything better.  He thinks of this as love, security and beneath all of this is a tortured mind obviously, a confused mind, and everything he touches is marked by this confusion and pain.

Which is ignorance: he doesn't know any better. What's more, he won't even listen, his brain is malfunctioning to such a degree that he doesn't even suspect that the WHOLE thing is wrong, and so he ends up trying to fix various parts, which of course cannot possibly work.

I remember bruce, not so long ago I had three good male friends, I mean just friends and we used to hang out together most of the time, and then after a while they begun to fall in love and I din't, and it was bad, because two of them got really mean and I had to severe all ties.  I do not pretend to have fallen in love with anyone.  Ocassionally I might be attracted to someone but usually it fades out pretty quickly on it's own.  But I love men(and women, ofcourse) and share a good rapport with those in my life and they've mostly been kind and supporting and wonderful in general.  Not much to complain there, although women used to hate me as they couldn't understand why the males were so attracted to me and you know how mean women can be, I mean terrible.  Love and hate both of which I had nothing to do with whatsoever.

(continuation of post #147..)

So my only loyal companion has been 'my' aloneness.  I might have great many friends who adore and care about me, yet you won't find anyone more alone than I.  I and 'my' aloneness are inseparable.  Never quiet feel I belong with anyone, anywhere and now that's not sad whatsover, but rather freeing if you understand what I mean.

Last edited by pearl (2012-03-28 19:40:56)