KFA - Krishnamurti Foundation of America

Tom wrote:

pearl wrote:

Is there anything apart from 'you' that searches?

Not only that, but where does the 'you' or the 'me' search? It can only search within the limits of the known, within the limits of its own knowledge and experience. When a confused mind seeks clarity, for example, it can only search for it through any idea of clarity which it has already formed. Therefore it is confusion itself that seeks and searches. When there is no searching at all then there is only a mind that is neither confused nor clear. That surely is clarity; not the clarity that is merely a reaction to confusion. Do you follow what I mean?

Yes, absolutely.

hermann wrote:

Why don't I see clearly that ideas can only ever create insecurity?

Or would it be better to ask why we're constantly getting trapped in ideas?

pearl wrote:

Tom wrote:

pearl wrote:

Is there anything apart from 'you' that searches?

Not only that, but where does the 'you' or the 'me' search? It can only search within the limits of the known, within the limits of its own knowledge and experience. When a confused mind seeks clarity, for example, it can only search for it through any idea of clarity which it has already formed. Therefore it is confusion itself that seeks and searches. When there is no searching at all then there is only a mind that is neither confused nor clear. That surely is clarity; not the clarity that is merely a reaction to confusion. Do you follow what I mean?

Yes, absolutely.

So not to search for the answer to a problem, that's really a form of death. It is the denial of the self as the central censor or controller. And without the searching for an answer, what is a problem?

Tom wrote:

pearl wrote:

Tom wrote:

Not only that, but where does the 'you' or the 'me' search? It can only search within the limits of the known, within the limits of its own knowledge and experience. When a confused mind seeks clarity, for example, it can only search for it through any idea of clarity which it has already formed. Therefore it is confusion itself that seeks and searches. When there is no searching at all then there is only a mind that is neither confused nor clear. That surely is clarity; not the clarity that is merely a reaction to confusion. Do you follow what I mean?

Yes, absolutely.

So not to search for the answer to a problem, that's really a form of death. It is the denial of the self as the central censor or controller. And without the searching for an answer, what is a problem?

Any attemtps from the center to solve the problems are still a part of the problem, isn't it?

night wrote:

If the young mind was ready to take on anything that life throws at it, there would not be a censor. There would not be mental traumas. So the censor actually fulfills a necessary function. When the mind matures and is ready to face things, the censor dissolves naturally.

Life throws at you a problem. Why is the censor necessary? (I'm not saying that it is unnecessary or necessary, but as you're saying that the censor fulfills a necessary function, could we explore this a little?)

ilan_moorthi wrote:

Tom wrote:

Just see what is happening: we are meeting real problems with images and ideas. Right? There is this real current mess and instead of facing it there is only a movement away from it through the desire to be elsewhere. Yet wherever we go, we take that mess with us.

Is reorganization also a form of seeing with images and ideas? Recognisation and confirming the internal state and external environment seems constant activity. Constant carelessness and ignorance seems to energize the mess.

But I am the mess. I am in a real mess and yet I escape from it. Why? Why is one constantly escaping from what one is? It is the very act of escaping that causes all the problem. Because until one escapes from it, where is the mess? Until one conjures up the image of the beautiful where is the bad? It does not exist - does it? - except as in comparison with an invented image.

Last edited by Tom (2012-03-06 14:13:34)

tree wrote:

http://ifyoutoleratethis45.files.wordpr … /03708.jpg

Very precise tree.  Nice one.

So what happens to the problem when there is no search for an answer?

pearl wrote:

There is only the problem which is not apart from you, whatever the problem...

ilan_moorthi wrote:

It seems there is no separation between searching for an answer and the creation of the problem. Identifying a problem is the search for answer. What are the problems of living without the censor?

You see, why do we say 'problem'? Why are we so quick to identify events, situations and even people as 'problems'?

Tom wrote:

night wrote:

The censor/suppressor is a protection mechanism when there is overdose. Its function is to establish boundaries until you can face whatever there is to face. If the mind is not ready, it protects itself so. Same as the need to belong to a group.

Yes, but why does the mind have to be ready? Ready for what?

For anything, precisely.

Tom wrote:

So what happens to the problem when there is no search for an answer?

pearl wrote:

There is only the problem which is not apart from you, whatever the problem...

ilan_moorthi wrote:

It seems there is no separation between searching for an answer and the creation of the problem. Identifying a problem is the search for answer. What are the problems of living without the censor?

You see, why do we say 'problem'? Why are we so quick to identify events, situations and even people as 'problems'?

Now, you're simply playing.  Look, sir, you started with the word,"problem".  The word is not the problem.  Look beyond the word, you can call it a crisis, or a challenge, or confusion what ever, but there it is that which you must face.  And just because you do not use the word,'problem' doesn't mean it doesn't exist.  Don't get caught up in word games sir.  We must use words to look, observe.  But now you carry on from here without me.  Nothing more to add.

pearl wrote:

...you're a butt of a joke, and sorta dumb as well.  Listen to bruce he may enlighten you.

...said the anus

Tom wrote:

You see, why do we say 'problem'? Why are we so quick to identify events, situations and even people as 'problems'?

The word problem is used describe an unpleasurable feeling like anger, hate, fear and worry arise to an incident or assumption.  Isn't it because of our parents and teachers created the idea what is right or order and told us all other events disorder. In engineering course a state is assumed safe or order based on certain critiera at first then all that do not meet the criteria identified as problems.  Either on a paper or as a mental image.  May be this is the first step taken during any incorrect situations.  May be this gives a feeling of being in control of the situation.