KFA - Krishnamurti Foundation of America

yes,

close the windows
shut the doors
dim the light

Eden would probably rag on me if he was online right now,
the idea that 'you cannot go to it' is anathema to him, committed as he is, to the going.

fanaticism abounds in our world, (Islam a particular magnet for its intensity)
and who, understanding the motives, could lay blame
do we think less of the fish who struggles against the hook and line until it is so exhausted that death becomes preferable, welcome?

and sry about the going in the quote, but it is so beautiful methinks

See RJ, when you say truth must come to you, everybody leaves lazily.
It was also said that the truth was immensely high and you must make all efforts and struggles to come to it. It cannot bend down to you.

snguyen wrote:

See RJ, when you say truth must come to you, everybody leaves lazily.
It was also said that the truth was immensely high and you must make all efforts and struggles to come to it. It cannot bend down to you.

I like this line

"everybody leaves lazily"

it is much better than

'everyone left in a hurry' or
'everybody just stayed and wouldn't leave"


so which is it my sagacious fellow? you must make all efforts and struggles or you can't go to it and it must come to you?

pick a side (or make like a non-dualist and shrink your powers of deduction down to the point where you simply stop bothering thus soon find yourself looking at inanimate objects with a weird sense of envy tinged with regret)

RJ wrote:

snguyen wrote:

See RJ, when you say truth must come to you, everybody leaves lazily.
It was also said that the truth was immensely high and you must make all efforts and struggles to come to it. It cannot bend down to you.

I like this line

"everybody leaves lazily"

it is much better than

'everyone left in a hurry' or
'everybody just stayed and wouldn't leave"


so which is it my sagacious fellow? you must make all efforts and struggles or you can't go to it and it must come to you?

pick a side (or make like a non-dualist and shrink your powers of deduction down to the point where you simply stop bothering thus soon find yourself looking at inanimate objects with a weird sense of envy tinged with regret)

Today is my fun day brother.

I used to get so frustrated at K when he laughed happily himself during his discussion or left it half concluded for what I was searching for.

Several times I cursed at him disgustingly when I found out myself that I was tricked and betrayed by him.

Now I understand it was never his fault. Like I never try to be bad to you. When I am serious  I am an asshole. When I am happy, I am one too. Shadow boxing, yeah, I like your rich english though lazy enough to turn to a dictionary.

RJ wrote:

so which is it my sagacious fellow? you must make all efforts and struggles or you can't go to it and it must come to you?

How about this good brother,

"you must make all efforts and struggles" to die to everything you know for "you can't go to it" carrying any single thing. Leave your windows open unconsciously and MAYBE it comes to you.

In the meantime you live happily ))))

wilbro99 wrote:

Hi RJ, I see your humor setting is high.

In the same vein, I shall look at the angle of a cause/effect in which only the effect is known.

What came before the big bang? I see your question here not as a question, but a point, both in the sense of the pointing and the pointed at; a universal gesture, if you will.

The question between us has always been one of identity. You conclude an identity I do not conclude.

Let me turn the question around. When It comes to you, are you changed? If you were changed, then the cause and effect is given. If, in coming to you, It did not introduce itself to you, are you changed, wherein is the cause?

Is not the change the change, and why then is it necessary to know that Cause, or if there is a cause, if the change is the change? Is it not the practice that counts, and not the hymns?

While I am at it, let me correct a record. You signed off one post with RJ spelt out. I looked up the name in NZ and came up with a vicar of that name, so that is what I was asking in the question about the cloth; the subject being theism.

thank you for the heads up re the identity thieving Vicar. I shall contact Ekanta's lawyers immediately after I go to the dry cleaners to press my suit.

When It comes to you, are you changed?

Yeah man, I was 17, had declared myself an atheist since I was 12 (parents v. big in the Catholic church so wasn't easy but I always was a headstrong little monkey) and was not expecting the big It to come to me, not at all.
As changed as a ticket-collectors money bag I wuz.

Wuz I? I wuz.

And that is our difference; what I call context. The big It came to you and you changed. I saw that I was not what I thought I was and I changed. What came to me was the insight. You felt something and I saw something.

Is that a difference that cannot be bridged? One experiences a meeting and the other a discontinuity. Is that difference expressed by saying that it is the meeting of presence that creates the change, or is it the change that reveals presence?

I suspect the question boils down to where presence is located; is it an absolute other or is it everywhere and nowhere?

Perhaps you and I meet back to back, so to speak; the two faces of catharsis? The Apolline and the Dionysian? Maybe it has to do with whether that first step was positive or negative, gain or loss.

Just thinking…

RJ wrote:

It must come to you

snguyen wrote:

Open all your windows, not your neighbor's.

RJ wrote:

yes,

close the windows
shut the doors
dim the light

If you want to be exactly, my friends.

‘You cannot invite the wind, but you can open your window’

If your window is closed, the ‘wind’ cannot get in whether it ‘must’ or not.

To open your window several preconditions are necessary: first, you have to see where it is and second, you have to make it open.

natura wrote:

So, plenty to do, anyway…

Not just arsing around and wait for unexpected bliss

hey wait a second,

what do you have against arsing around?
even if you aren't an Australian, you are in Australia, that's all anyone ever does over there, arses around. Oh sure every now and again they send someone into a hole to dig out some more gold or uranium or whatever, then someone else has to send it to China, and a third person has to bank the massive cheque that arrives on a super-freighter the next month, everyone else just arses around.

anyway, 'plenty to do' eh?

what is this 'plenty to do' business and how can it not just cause us to further get in our own way?

Last edited by RJ (2012-02-28 01:59:20)