KFA - Krishnamurti Foundation of America

joe wrote:

I wonder if you have looked into why these are the types of conversations you continually have here?  Actually I do not wonder that much, I am afraid I know the answer already.  Me saying this will of course be fodder for you to continue to look at me but is that what you want from all this?  To judge others?  Where is your own curiosity?  All your problems are solved, eh?  Why then are these the type of conversations you have here?

look, out of a confused mind comes confused view, it is simple. if you want to got the way of the hermann, always stucking in the confusion, then it is so. i cannot change this and you cannot change it. but if you are trying to say that it is normal for you to be stuck in confusion then i would agree, it is normal. but that what k talked about is not the norm, it is a tremendous action in which there is no fear and if your own kind of life has put you so down  that you concludel that others are just sleepy, I tell you, you has deceived yourself, my friend.

wilbro99 wrote:

awareness, you have ceased talking around corners. What happened?

ah, you can read it, if you want. what happened? i began to talk with joe about fear and then he moved away from the focuss, which is fear, began to put the yesterday between the actuallity and escape with bla bla...i dont know to put it in other words.

but i think it is better to talk with him about his kois

awareness wrote:

wilbro99 wrote:

awareness, you have ceased talking around corners. What happened?

ah, you can read it, if you want. what happened? i began to talk with joe about fear and then he moved away from the focuss, which is fear, began to put the yesterday between the actuallity and escape with bla bla...i dont know to put it in other words.

but i think it is better to talk with him about his kois

I moved into the fear awareness, but you didn't join in.  I made no bones of being free of it, I know the danger of that mindset all too well.  The hand is still extended to you but all you see is the fist.  Yes, it is moving into the past (which is the fear) but to react by only moving forward is the fear as well.  An idiot knows what an idiot is.

they are fine awareness, doing what koi do.  Why can the questions not be put together?  I understand the importance of looking into these things 'alone' but surely here in a dialogue forum it is about looking together, isn't it?  You don't really care about the koi, but willy does.  There is a qualitative difference in using the same words.

the only thing you are missing is that there still is a you...it just keeps whizzing by you.  It is obvious that there is a you who thinks it is entirely free of thought, as that you has said so numerous times.  The you is a dynamic, a phenomenon of material existence and available to all, conditioned into all.

So, our question then is: can `what is', the past, change, end completely? Then you break the cycle. When you break the cycle the cells in the brain themselves change. We have discussed this matter with brain specialists - but don't bother with all that. You see, sir, I have lived ninety years - the speaker is ninety. Don't sympathize with me for God's sake. All that has happened during these ninety years, or fifty years, or ten years, or even ten days, is the past - memory, experiences, talking here, there, small audiences, big audiences, reputation and all that nonsense - and all that is in the past. And he feels important sitting on a platform, he has a reputation, and he must keep up that reputation. So he wants this reputation, this sitting on the platform, all that business, to continue - right? But he may get old - not may, he is old - and he may lose the audience because his brain might go gaga - no listen to it carefully, please listen; it is not a matter of laughter. It is funny, but just look at it. Unless he is free of the audience now, his reputation now - he will be stuck. So end it. He may go gaga next year, all right, but he has ended it. The brain has broken the cycle of time.

The brain is composed of millions and millions of cells and those very cells mutate. There is a different species of cell because you have moved away from a certain direction to another direction. You follow? That is, you have been going north all your life. Somebody comes along and says, `Look, there is nothing in the north, for God's sake don't waste your energy on going north, go south or east.' The moment you turn east you have broken the pattern. You have broken the pattern which the brain cells have set and gone east. It is as simple as that, if one does it.

J. Krishnamurti Last Talks at Saanen 1985 3rd Public Talk Sunday, 14th July, 1985

yes...why not today?

Eden, hi, look at that small k after the last period in the post.

awareness is quoting JK on the sly

a matter of a moment to remedy, here it is, pasted




ENLIGHTENMENT SELF TEST




Please answer the following questions honestly before sending your satsang website to the Enlightenment Page, you will have to do this test before you are admitted to it.

If you are trying to deceive, you are only deceiving yourself.



1. When you fall asleep, you never fall asleep totally.
There is a part of you that never falls asleep.
If so, score 1 point.
If when you fall asleep you become completely asleep and your consciousness disappears until you wake up or dream, score 0.







2. Go out in the street. If all you see is sleeping people, moving mechanically, and dreaming while they walk, and this happens permanently, score 1.
If you only see normal people, going about their business, score 0.







3. Follow your breath for 2 hours (what about one minute?).
If you did this effortlessly, without missing one breath,
score 1 point, you probably are enlightened.
If you are not enlightened, you are about to be, so don't despair.
If you missed it even for 1 second, score 0







4. Get out on the street and walk for 1 kilometer,
being conscious of every step you make.
If you did this effortlessly, without missing a single step,
for over 1 kilometer (what about 20 meters?), score 1.
If you missed even one step, score 0







5. Your mind doesn't control you, you control the mind.
You can stop and start your mind whenever you like.
Do this little test: if you can live for 24 hours (what about one minute?),
without thinking a single thought, score 1.
But please don't stop before the 24 hours are over.
If you think a single thought before the 24 hours are over, score 0.







6. You haven't the 'need' to have sex, you haven't been sexually aroused, you haven't had an erection (in case you are a man, and you haven't been impotent before) ever since the moment of your enlightenment.
Do this little test: rent a couple of video-cassettes
and watch porno films for 10 hours.
If, when the 10 hours (what about 5 minutes?)are over, you haven't felt aroused
not even for one moment, score 1.
If not score 0.
And a second test: get undressed and hug a naked beautiful lady (or man, other than your husband/wife) for 2 hours (what about 2 minutes?).
If you don't feel sexually aroused, not even for one moment, score another point.
If you feel desire and wanting score 0.
You need 2 points as a maximum score to this question.







7. If you are afraid of death, or if you are afraid of anything, spiders, losing your job, falling off a cliff, etc. score 0 to this question.
Do a little test: go to the edge of a tall building and look down.
If you sense fear, score 0 to this question.
If you aren't afraid of anything, not even death, and you don't suffer from any mental illnesses, score 1.







8. Try to remember something from your previous life.
If you don't succeed, score 0.
If you remember your
past life in detail, score 1.



 


YOUR SCORES:
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The Mirror of Relationship: Love, Sex and Chastity
Third Talk in Bombay, 1959/60
...
So, what is the movement of learning, knowing? I see that knowledge is accumulated through experience. A man may have mechanical or technical knowledge, or he may cleverly have learned how to avoid psychological difficulties and maintain a state of inward comfort for himself; but I see that this knowledge is not the movement of knowing. Surely, the two are entirely different. Knowing is a constant movement; therefore, there is no static state, no fixed point from which to act. I wonder if I am making myself clear?

Look, sirs. Having listened and listening are two entirely different states. Fortunately or unfortunately, some of you have listened to me repeatedly for ten or more years, and having listened, you say, ''Yes, I know what he will say.'' That is not the state of listening. You are listening only when you do not translate what you hear in terms of what you have already heard. The state of listening is entirely different from having listened, gathered, and then listening further. When you listen further to something, you have ceased to listen. I wonder if you have ever considered the nature of love? Loving is one thing, and having loved is another. Love has no time. You cannot say, ''I have loved'' - it has no meaning. Then love is dead; you do not love. The state of love is not of the past or of the future. Similarly, knowledge is one thing, and the movement of knowing is another. Knowledge is binding, but the movement of knowing is not binding.

Just feel your way into this, don't accept or deny it. You see, knowledge has the quality of time; it is time-bound whereas the movement of knowing is timeless. If I want to know the nature of love, of meditation, of death, I cannot accept or deny anything. My mind must be in a state, not of doubt, but of inquiry - which means that it has no bondage to the past. The mind that is in the movement of knowing is free of time because there is no accumulation.

Sirs, you see, unless the mind is fresh, new, in a state of innocency, the nature of timelessness, of immortality, cannot be understood. I am not using that word immortality in the ordinary sense. I am using it to connote the feeling of immensity, of that which is without measure, the feeling of a mind that has no boundary, no frontier. I am not referring to the immortality that my little mind wants in its desire to live perpetually. That is not immortality at all; it is a bondage, it is enslavement to time. I want to discover the nature of that immortality which is beyond time. To do this, my mind must be in a state of inquiry, that is, in the movement of knowing from moment to moment - not in a state of having known, which puts a stop to knowing. You see, this is the source of misery with most people. You have read your innumerable books; you know what this saint or that guru has said, and when you hear the word immortality, you immediately translate it to conform to the pattern of your thinking; and when you do that, you have stopped the movement of knowing.
...
A mind that is in the movement of knowing is in a state of humility, which is innocence, and it is only the innocent that know love. The innocent mind is love; it will do what it will, but it has no ego. So experience is not the teacher. Experience is the teacher of achievement; it is the teacher of mechanical things, as knowledge is. But a mind that is in the movement of knowing is free of knowledge and experience; therefore, it has no past or future, and only such a mind can receive that which is not measurable by the mind.

JK, December 30, 1959

beans, are you experimenting with words by disappearance of the traditional, special meaning?:-)

if you write something here, in which direction are you looking?:-)