KFA - Krishnamurti Foundation of America

everyone · 2012-07-02 06:41:29

What is a good background? Is a snobs vanity a good background? Do the educated and vain have a good background? Do those fitting in to their families, and tribes practicing, nepotism have a good background? Do the nationalistic blind vain loyalist,as killers, or, warmongers or Killer financiers, Bank CEO'S and owners, and supporters of wars have a good background? Do the born rich have a good background? Do the so called ugly beasts we know as Corporate CEO's Or wealthiest family leaders, or Brahmans, and Gurus, and other exploiters, have a good background? Does a Shaman, or a mystic practicing black magic, and chicanery and exploiting people, practicing trickery, with their dolls, potions, and smoke without a flame , have a good background?

That is a very interesting statement to us friends . Kirsten and I were discussing this identical subject . Here is what we saw and see now to and reasoned out together technically without coming to any conclusion or solution for anyone personally . We most of us have seen the riots in cities where the police lose control and looters run rampant through the streets looting and burning buildings, and overturning cars even gangs beating others up while decent human beings, or the fearful stay home. You have seen both the sadistic Islamist, and the gloating Christian saying you heathens you infidels, you heretics we cannot wait to see you burn in hell because we are special, and chosen and saved and you will burn eternally in hellfire's or suffer by our self righteous criminal suicide acts against mankind for our own promised rewards .

Do those who would loot with out any police to stop them, or if they were not afraid have a good background? Do those who would gloat on seeing their false Gods take revenge on non believers have a good background ? Do those who let their leaders commit mass killing in their name, or the destruction of their neighbors children have a good background? Do those who would let their governments put their children and friends in jail for political reasons, or victim less crimes without speaking out have a good background?

Do those who would support mega corporations destroying their planet, ravaging resources, cutting down rain forests, or hunting their cousins, the beautiful creatures to extinction, or destroying the rain forests, and killing off indigenous tribes, have a good background? Do any of us have a good background doing nothing, advising doing nothing staring at their safe tiny asses, and navels,and also not bringing any water to the fire, as our planet burns have a good background of silence ? Please tell Kirsten and myself my friends. What is goodness? What is peace: What is a good background if its not in our ears, eyes, feelings, and senses opening up our hearts to this monstrous, mass delusion, mostly cultic in origin , and a mob driven tragedy on earth, greater than any tragedy, or drama, ever written by any author dead , or presently alive ?

everyone · 2012-07-02 06:58:28

Jiddu Krishnamurti: You know, man has lost faith in what he has believed; he no longer follows anybody. You understand what is happening politically when the audience throws shoes and stones at the speaker? It means that they are discarding leadership, they do not want to be told what to do any more. Man is in despair. Man is in confusion. There is a great deal of sorrow. And no ideology, whether of the left or the right, has any meaning. All ideologies are idiotic anyhow. They have no meaning, when they are faced with the actual fact of what is. So we can disregard not only the authority of leadership but also the authority of the priest, the authority of the book, the authority of religion; we can totally disregard all these and we have to disregard them in order to find out what is true. J.K.

beans · 2012-07-02 07:52:46

everyone wrote:
What is a good background? Is a snobs vanity a good background? Do the educated and vain have a good background? Do those fitting in to their families, and tribes practicing, nepotism have a good background? Do the nationalistic blind vain loyalist,as killers, or, warmongers or Killer financiers, Bank CEO'S and owners, and supporters of wars have a good background? Do the born rich have a good background? Do the so called ugly beasts we know as Corporate CEO's Or wealthiest family leaders, or Brahmans, and Gurus, and other exploiters, have a good background? Does a Shaman, or a mystic practicing black magic, and chicanery and exploiting people, practicing trickery, with their dolls, potions, and smoke without a flame , have a good background?

That is a very interesting statement to us friends . Kirsten and I were discussing this identical subject . Here is what we saw and see now to and reasoned out together technically without coming to any conclusion or solution for anyone personally . We most of us have seen the riots in cities where the police lose control and looters run rampant through the streets looting and burning buildings, and overturning cars even gangs beating others up while decent human beings, or the fearful stay home. You have seen both the sadistic Islamist, and the gloating Christian saying you heathens you infidels, you heretics we cannot wait to see you burn in hell because we are special, and chosen and saved and you will burn eternally in hellfire's or suffer by our self righteous criminal suicide acts against mankind for our own promised rewards .

Do those who would loot with out any police to stop them, or if they were not afraid have a good background? Do those who would gloat on seeing their false Gods take revenge on non believers have a good background ? Do those who let their leaders commit mass killing in their name, or the destruction of their neighbors children have a good background? Do those who would let their governments put their children and friends in jail for political reasons, or victim less crimes without speaking out have a good background?

Do those who would support mega corporations destroying their planet, ravaging resources, cutting down rain forests, or hunting their cousins, the beautiful creatures to extinction, or destroying the rain forests, and killing off indigenous tribes, have a good background? Do any of us have a good background doing nothing, advising doing nothing staring at their safe tiny asses, and navels,and also not bringing any water to the fire, as our planet burns have a good background of silence ? Please tell Kirsten and myself my friends. What is goodness? What is peace: What is a good background if its not in our ears, eyes, feelings, and senses opening up our hearts to this monstrous, mass delusion, mostly cultic in origin , and a mob driven tragedy on earth, greater than any tragedy, or drama, ever written by any author dead , or presently alive ?

Just to be clear, a good background for what, exactly? Do you mean 'the right circumstances for change to awareness as a way of being', or do you mean 'the right circumstances for fighting the worldly corruption"? And are either of these something a human being has control over?

Last edited by beans (2012-07-02 07:54:08)

everyone · 2012-07-02 08:00:03

Beans I see a background without psychological conditioning allows any of us you me or the other , to see act not just react from that background .A new mind is not of the East, or the West so in that way some are unique my friends . Most anyone can say yes Indians are superstitious. Without seeing into their own ugly systems, and politicians and economists, and corporate CEO's. Without seeing their wealthy family leaders, and the Pope, priests, and Rabbis, Monks Buddhists in their own nations are their Guru's. Without seeing their prime ministers, are corrupt along with their Queens, and fortune five hundred most wealthy. Blind Followers all have their own exploiting leaders, and Guru's . Its easy to talk about another nation or other selves but those seeing into their own loyalties, their own nationalism, their own false cultural heritage, the field of reward and punishment, all following and leading, and all psychological conditioning are the salt of the earth . I sincerely do not see or feel pride is a goodness oriented state . I do not see it is good to be proud of being any label or culture founded on superstition, or theology or anti theology . Or proud of any of our divisive nations, and flags . :-)

Last edited by everyone (2012-07-02 08:04:59)

beans · 2012-07-02 08:14:53

everyone wrote:
Beans I see a background without psychological conditioning allows any of us you me or the other , to see act not just react from that background .A new mind is not of the East, or the West so in that way some are unique my friends . Most anyone can say yes Indians are superstitious. Without seeing into their own ugly systems, and politicians and economists, and corporate CEO's. Without seeing their wealthy family leaders, and the Pope, priests, and Rabbis, Monks Buddhists in their own nations are their Guru's. Without seeing their prime ministers, are corrupt along with their Queens, and fortune five hundred most wealthy. Blind Followers all have their own exploiting leaders, and Guru's . Its easy to talk about another nation or other selves but those seeing into their own loyalties, their own nationalism, their own false cultural heritage, the field of reward and punishment, all following and leading, and all psychological conditioning are the salt of the earth . I sincerely do not see or feel pride is a goodness oriented state . I do not see it is good to be proud of being any label or culture founded on superstition, or theology or anti theology . Or proud of any of our divisive nations, and flags . :-)

So, a background without psychological conditioning of any kind, including pride or shame. The fact is that humans are psychologically conditioned. One may come to a way of being that allows seeing of the rising of the conditioning, but most don't...so what to do?

everyone · 2012-07-02 09:54:24

beans wrote:
everyone wrote:
Beans I see a background without psychological conditioning allows any of us you me or the other , to see act not just react from that background .A new mind is not of the East, or the West so in that way some are unique my friends . Most anyone can say yes Indians are superstitious. Without seeing into their own ugly systems, and politicians and economists, and corporate CEO's. Without seeing their wealthy family leaders, and the Pope, priests, and Rabbis, Monks Buddhists in their own nations are their Guru's. Without seeing their prime ministers, are corrupt along with their Queens, and fortune five hundred most wealthy. Blind Followers all have their own exploiting leaders, and Guru's . Its easy to talk about another nation or other selves but those seeing into their own loyalties, their own nationalism, their own false cultural heritage, the field of reward and punishment, all following and leading, and all psychological conditioning are the salt of the earth . I sincerely do not see or feel pride is a goodness oriented state . I do not see it is good to be proud of being any label or culture founded on superstition, or theology or anti theology . Or proud of any of our divisive nations, and flags . :-)
So, a background without psychological conditioning of any kind, including pride or shame. The fact is that humans are psychologically conditioned. One may come to a way of being that allows seeing of the rising of the conditioning, but most don't...so what to do?

Just see . Be aware . Thought is memory. So as awareness increases evolves now because your ability to listen without bias becomes more important than thought to you ,awareness expands to see the background of thought. So use thought, that is always the past as a tool, put it in its right place. We'll see together but you can, and really maybe communication is new, when it is from awareness, not bias, or resistance, or any image of others we have in our own heads . We'll see . :-)

beans · 2012-07-02 18:25:26

everyone wrote:
Just see . Be aware . Thought is memory. So as awareness increases evolves now because your ability to listen without bias becomes more important than thought to you ,awareness expands to see the background of thought. So use thought, that is always the past as a tool, put it in its right place. We'll see together but you can, and really maybe communication is new, when it is from awareness, not bias, or resistance, or any image of others we have in our own heads . We'll see . :-)

Yes, one is psychologically conditioned and may or may not come to see the rising of conditioning as it happens, but most don't. I'm not sure that advocating seeing or being aware has an effect. So that leaves each of us with ourselves to focus on, if we are really serious....

awareness · 2012-07-02 18:30:54

everyone wrote:
beans wrote:
everyone wrote:
Beans I see a background without psychological conditioning allows any of us you me or the other , to see act not just react from that background .A new mind is not of the East, or the West so in that way some are unique my friends . Most anyone can say yes Indians are superstitious. Without seeing into their own ugly systems, and politicians and economists, and corporate CEO's. Without seeing their wealthy family leaders, and the Pope, priests, and Rabbis, Monks Buddhists in their own nations are their Guru's. Without seeing their prime ministers, are corrupt along with their Queens, and fortune five hundred most wealthy. Blind Followers all have their own exploiting leaders, and Guru's . Its easy to talk about another nation or other selves but those seeing into their own loyalties, their own nationalism, their own false cultural heritage, the field of reward and punishment, all following and leading, and all psychological conditioning are the salt of the earth . I sincerely do not see or feel pride is a goodness oriented state . I do not see it is good to be proud of being any label or culture founded on superstition, or theology or anti theology . Or proud of any of our divisive nations, and flags . :-)
So, a background without psychological conditioning of any kind, including pride or shame. The fact is that humans are psychologically conditioned. One may come to a way of being that allows seeing of the rising of the conditioning, but most don't...so what to do?
Just see . Be aware . Thought is memory. So as awareness increases evolves now because your ability to listen without bias becomes more important than thought to you ,awareness expands to see the background of thought. So use thought, that is always the past as a tool, put it in its right place. We'll see together but you can, and really maybe communication is new, when it is from awareness, not bias, or resistance, or any image of others we have in our own heads . We'll see . :-)

awareness does not increase. it is there, but thought covers up. awareness is therefore in the ending of thought.

beans · 2012-07-02 18:36:33

awareness wrote:
awareness does not increase. it is there, but thought covers up. awareness is therefore in the ending of thought.

Awareness does not increase itself, but periods of awareness can lengthen, as I think everyone is saying. Those periods can also shorten, when one becomes resistant or fearful etc

Last edited by beans (2012-07-02 18:36:58)

awareness · 2012-07-02 18:43:19

beans wrote:
awareness wrote:
awareness does not increase. it is there, but thought covers up. awareness is therefore in the ending of thought.
Awareness does not increase itself, but periods of awareness can lengthen, as I think everyone is saying. Those periods can also shorten, when one becomes resistant or fearful etc

"periods of", "lengthen", "shorten", sorry but that implies time.

beans · 2012-07-02 18:45:12

awareness wrote:
beans wrote:
awareness wrote:
awareness does not increase. it is there, but thought covers up. awareness is therefore in the ending of thought.
Awareness does not increase itself, but periods of awareness can lengthen, as I think everyone is saying. Those periods can also shorten, when one becomes resistant or fearful etc
"periods of", "lengthen", "shorten", sorry but that implies time.

Yes, just like the time it takes a flower to open, or to close at night.

awareness · 2012-07-02 18:53:33

beans wrote:
awareness wrote:
beans wrote:

Awareness does not increase itself, but periods of awareness can lengthen, as I think everyone is saying. Those periods can also shorten, when one becomes resistant or fearful etc
"periods of", "lengthen", "shorten", sorry but that implies time.
Yes, just like the time it takes a flower to open, or to close at night.

and now you internalize the outward into the inward?

awareness · 2012-07-02 18:57:21

that is connecting one moment by another, comparement from what was with what is, which is the continuation of the what was and therefore it is not the what is, in which transformation can occure.

beans · 2012-07-02 19:01:19

awareness wrote:
beans wrote:
awareness wrote:

"periods of", "lengthen", "shorten", sorry but that implies time.
Yes, just like the time it takes a flower to open, or to close at night.
and now you internalize the outward into the inward?

It's all the same really, isn't it? Both are examples.

beans · 2012-07-02 19:02:49

awareness wrote:
that is connecting one moment by another, comparement from what was with what is, which is the continuation of the what was and therefore it is not the what is, in which transformation can occure.

One can look back and see these periods, what went on earlier. That is not the same thing as evaluating the I moment by moment.

wilbro99 · 2012-07-02 19:07:55

beanzy sez: "Awareness does not increase itself, but periods of awareness can lengthen, as I think everyone is saying. Those periods can also shorten, when one becomes resistant or fearful etc"

I agree. The space between being lost can expand or contract in the process of making that space home.

Sure, that looks like time, but if the gate is there, it is process, not time.

The process of understanding is always at once, else it is not understanding.

So wonks willy...

beans · 2012-07-02 19:11:28

There is physical time or space-time or whatever those scientist types are calling it (which you're calling process) and there is psychological time, is there not, wonky one?

wilbro99 · 2012-07-02 19:34:38

I am thinking of process as the the process of understanding a difference like no other. The difference opens up the space and the understanding keeps it open.

If you are thinking along the same lines, then we are thinking along the same lines.

beans · 2012-07-02 19:54:09

That sounds like one possible truth -

"...and the understanding keeps it open."

OR

"...and the understanding keeps it open for a while, then says that's enough, I'm outta here."

OR

"...and the understanding says what the heck was that?! I must be something else."

wilbro99 · 2012-07-02 19:58:03

How did you get that out of what I said?

beans · 2012-07-02 20:03:35

Well, we were talking about a process and length of "space" - each of those OR scenarios has different amounts of space.

wilbro99 · 2012-07-02 20:23:44

Ah, I was thinking of space as being present or absent, not in terms of distance.

Babs · 2012-07-02 21:12:26

Understanding is it not? a situation that is finished with. If not, then you have not understood. - just a thought on understanding. Perhaps not a good one, but it feels right.

joe · 2012-07-02 21:58:40

do you mean understanding is the bridge, bu?

beans · 2012-07-03 06:57:52

wilbro99 wrote:
Ah, I was thinking of space as being present or absent, not in terms of distance.

Yes, that difference that can't be held onto, which most don't even recognize. Leaving us each with what is.

KFA - Krishnamurti Foundation of America

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#1 2012-07-02 06:41:29

What is a good background ?

#2 2012-07-02 06:58:28

Re: What is a good background ?

#3 2012-07-02 07:52:46

Re: What is a good background ?

everyone wrote:

#4 2012-07-02 08:00:03

Re: What is a good background ?

#5 2012-07-02 08:14:53

Re: What is a good background ?

everyone wrote:

#6 2012-07-02 09:54:24

Re: What is a good background ?

beans wrote:

everyone wrote:

#7 2012-07-02 18:25:26

Re: What is a good background ?

everyone wrote:

#8 2012-07-02 18:30:54

Re: What is a good background ?

everyone wrote:

beans wrote:

everyone wrote:

#9 2012-07-02 18:36:33

Re: What is a good background ?

awareness wrote:

#10 2012-07-02 18:43:19

Re: What is a good background ?

beans wrote:

awareness wrote:

#11 2012-07-02 18:45:12

Re: What is a good background ?

awareness wrote:

beans wrote:

awareness wrote:

#12 2012-07-02 18:53:33

Re: What is a good background ?

beans wrote:

awareness wrote:

beans wrote:

#13 2012-07-02 18:57:21

Re: What is a good background ?

#14 2012-07-02 19:01:19

Re: What is a good background ?

awareness wrote:

beans wrote:

awareness wrote:

#15 2012-07-02 19:02:49

Re: What is a good background ?

awareness wrote:

#16 2012-07-02 19:07:55

Re: What is a good background ?

#17 2012-07-02 19:11:28

Re: What is a good background ?

#18 2012-07-02 19:34:38

Re: What is a good background ?

#19 2012-07-02 19:54:09

Re: What is a good background ?

#20 2012-07-02 19:58:03

Re: What is a good background ?

#21 2012-07-02 20:03:35

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#22 2012-07-02 20:23:44

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#23 2012-07-02 21:12:26

Re: What is a good background ?

#24 2012-07-02 21:58:40

Re: What is a good background ?

#25 2012-07-03 06:57:52

Re: What is a good background ?

wilbro99 wrote:

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