KFA - Krishnamurti Foundation of America

bruce sean · 2012-04-12 15:15:42

Just because others deny my reading doesn't mean it's not true. I look into the reasons of what is being posted, and sometimes the posters don't like that. Or they're using words which point towards a specific thing, while claiming to say another: they're simply not consistent with what they started.
Besides, this is still a general observation, without ay concrete example: it is meaningless to me, as I treat each statement at a time. To#48.

Last edited by bruce sean (2012-04-12 15:16:11)

snguyen · 2012-04-12 15:18:01

joe wrote:
while I appreciate the brevity of your posting Si, I think one or two more lines would help clarify the meaning. What do you mean by a 'losing movement'?

Yeah, long lines are hard to follow.

I feel I am losing everything. I watch that from some point in the river of memory, a challenge, a desire, a reaction spring up, and so they are just memory. There it loses its drive.

bruce sean · 2012-04-12 15:18:33

snguyen wrote:
bruce sean wrote:
snguyen wrote:

When the observer separates from thought and starts to analyze, the flow of memory gets momentum. But if I flow, swim in the flow of memory, it soon loses its flow.
But why are you stating this? I see it the other way: the flow also has a momentum-actually, this is long gone, for me. It used to be like that, but now it's wrong to speak of momentum, either way.
It is like a rock dropped on a water sufface, but the waves soon die down. The surprise thing is memory does not record it, which is a marvelous peace.

But you have to describe it in way that makes sense for the question at hand, though for you it is all long gone.

It is long gone the momentum, that's what I meant-not the flow. Momentum implies that at some point it will stop, sooner or later. It doesn't, it's rather the natural state. So the waves don't die down.

joe · 2012-04-12 15:18:44

We are talking about this because you did that very thing with me in this thread, which I KNEW you would, because that is the pattern. Read it yourself, if you can get past the silly notion that it is only thought looking. I am no enemy to you and you know that I think. Alas, I have pointed, the rest is up to you, I am going disc golf with my son.

to #51

Last edited by joe (2012-04-12 15:19:24)

joe · 2012-04-12 15:22:10

snguyen wrote:
joe wrote:
while I appreciate the brevity of your posting Si, I think one or two more lines would help clarify the meaning. What do you mean by a 'losing movement'?
Yeah, long lines are hard to follow.

I feel I am losing everything. I watch that from some point in the river of memory, a challenge, a desire, a reaction spring up, and so they are just memory. There it loses its drive.

Ok, that makes more sense. So when you see the reaction *as it is actually happening* you also see that the reaction has no energy behind it and falls away, is that what you mean? It is the art of negation, the primary principle K put out, imo.

snguyen · 2012-04-12 15:25:02

bruce sean wrote:
It is long gone the momentum, that's what I meant-not the flow. Momentum implies that at some point it will stop, sooner or later. It doesn't, it's rather the natural state. So the waves don't die down.

No I say, anger gets momentum when there is conflict from observer...
As for the living from moment to moment, it does not stop because it is a living thing in its real sense.

snguyen · 2012-04-12 15:27:43

joe wrote:
snguyen wrote:
joe wrote:
while I appreciate the brevity of your posting Si, I think one or two more lines would help clarify the meaning. What do you mean by a 'losing movement'?
Yeah, long lines are hard to follow.

I feel I am losing everything. I watch that from some point in the river of memory, a challenge, a desire, a reaction spring up, and so they are just memory. There it loses its drive.
Ok, that makes more sense. So when you see the reaction *as it is actually happening* you also see that the reaction has no energy behind it and falls away, is that what you mean? It is the art of negation, the primary principle K put out, imo.

Yes, that is very true, to really live the moment, then drop it, move to the next, in which you don't move but things present themselves.

bruce sean · 2012-04-12 15:28:55

snguyen wrote:
bruce sean wrote:
It is long gone the momentum, that's what I meant-not the flow. Momentum implies that at some point it will stop, sooner or later. It doesn't, it's rather the natural state. So the waves don't die down.
No I say, anger gets momentum when there is conflict from observer...
As for the living from moment to moment, it does not stop because it is a living thing in its real sense.

But momentum acts the other way, too.

snguyen · 2012-04-12 15:31:14

bruce sean wrote:
But momentum acts the other way, too.

like what?

bruce sean · 2012-04-12 15:31:58

joe wrote:
We are talking about this because you did that very thing with me in this thread, which I KNEW you would, because that is the pattern. Read it yourself, if you can get past the silly notion that it is only thought looking. I am no enemy to you and you know that I think. Alas, I have pointed, the rest is up to you, I am going disc golf with my son.

to #51

What I meant was this observation: reporting what happened, while being second news, doesn't have to stop the flow: they could both happen at the same time. That's all-no comment on 'looking ahead of the curve'. It doesn't come up, this looking ahead, so I'm not commenting on that.

Last edited by bruce sean (2012-04-12 16:13:28)

bruce sean · 2012-04-12 15:33:37

snguyen wrote:
bruce sean wrote:
But momentum acts the other way, too.
like what?

The other way, meaning the momentum of the flow prevents anger from taking place.

You see, normally we think that non-facts are a distraction from facts. For me it's the other way: the facts are a distraction from the non-facts!

snguyen · 2012-04-12 15:40:17

bruce sean wrote:
snguyen wrote:
bruce sean wrote:
But momentum acts the other way, too.
like what?
The other way, meaning the momentum of the flow prevents anger from taking place.

You see, normally we think that non-facts are a distraction from facts. For me it's the other way: the facts are a distraction from the non-facts!

Yeah, it wipes out conditioned reactions.

I am angry, that's a fact. The observer says blah balh... that's a distraction from fact.
I don't see the other way you said.

bruce sean · 2012-04-12 15:41:51

I discovered this the other day: I was too busy watching for inattention to creep in!

snguyen · 2012-04-12 15:45:16

bruce sean wrote:
I discovered this the other day: I was too busy watching for inattention to creep in!

haha, you are good with words but I am not. All I can say is it is very creative: the new in the living learning. However, I see that no priciple, no past discovery can last in the next day.

snguyen · 2012-04-12 15:46:52

I mean, this meditation thing is extremely amazing.

bruce sean · 2012-04-12 15:47:57

Are you saying that no insight carries over into the next day? Does that mean that the ego is here today, but perhaps not tomorrow, then again it will come back on Saturday?!
To#65.

Last edited by bruce sean (2012-04-12 15:48:19)

bruce sean · 2012-04-12 15:49:37

snguyen wrote:
I mean, this meditation thing is extremely amazing.

I was wondering whether to call it meditation. Because then it becomes a practice-let me do some more meditation! It must happen without paying you attention to it.

snguyen · 2012-04-12 15:52:17

bruce sean wrote:
Are you saying that no insight carries over into the next day? Does that mean that the ego is here today, but perhaps not tomorrow, then again it will come back on Saturday?!
To#65.

No, I mean it is always new. What is carried over is knowledge, right? When I really lose myself, there is this movement that memory does not catch, for it is quiet, no need.

But yes, the foundation of peace is always there, or else, what's the point?

snguyen · 2012-04-12 15:53:30

bruce sean wrote:
snguyen wrote:
I mean, this meditation thing is extremely amazing.
I was wondering whether to call it meditation. Because then it becomes a practice-let me do some more meditation! It must happen without paying you attention to it.

It means all that. But just stick to that word. Not the practice...

bruce sean · 2012-04-12 15:53:50

So that very basic insight does carry over into the next day.
To#68.

Last edited by bruce sean (2012-04-12 15:54:14)

snguyen · 2012-04-12 15:54:44

All right so what? there can't be a conversation between you and me, bruce. Rather a silent one. What you think? anything to teach me? to say?

bruce sean · 2012-04-12 15:58:08

snguyen wrote:
bruce sean wrote:
snguyen wrote:
I mean, this meditation thing is extremely amazing.
I was wondering whether to call it meditation. Because then it becomes a practice-let me do some more meditation! It must happen without paying you attention to it.
It means all that. But just stick to that word. Not the practice...

Yes. The only way to stick with the word, for me, is this: when someone asks me what I'm doing, because it may seem like I'm just wasting time, the right answer would be: Oh, I'm meditating, because otherwise what would I answer?! 'Nothing' would be understood as wasting time, being confused, having problems to think about, all that.
And using that word would be the most accurate answer, without having to negate all those things, as an explanation!

snguyen · 2012-04-12 15:59:14

Ah yes. ask you this. Though I work for a living, I have not much resistance to it. Now, if you can live without much work, but in pure awareness and attention, enjoying life, that can be a great thing.

bruce sean · 2012-04-12 15:59:58

snguyen wrote:
All right so what? there can't be a conversation between you and me, bruce. Rather a silent one. What you think? anything to teach me? to say?

There cannot be a conversation? I think we can see things together, at the same time: it's more delightful than seeing alone!

bruce sean · 2012-04-12 16:01:39

snguyen wrote:
Ah yes. ask you this. Though I work for a living, I have not much resistance to it. Now, if you can live without much work, but in pure awareness and attention, enjoying life, that can be a great thing.

It is possible because I'm single, don't have a family to support, and don't want too much for myself. But that means living in discomfort.

KFA - Krishnamurti Foundation of America

Announcement

#51 2012-04-12 15:15:42

Re: change...

#52 2012-04-12 15:18:01

Re: change...

joe wrote:

#53 2012-04-12 15:18:33

Re: change...

snguyen wrote:

bruce sean wrote:

snguyen wrote:

#54 2012-04-12 15:18:44

Re: change...

#55 2012-04-12 15:22:10

Re: change...

snguyen wrote:

joe wrote:

#56 2012-04-12 15:25:02

Re: change...

bruce sean wrote:

#57 2012-04-12 15:27:43

Re: change...

joe wrote:

snguyen wrote:

joe wrote:

#58 2012-04-12 15:28:55

Re: change...

snguyen wrote:

bruce sean wrote:

#59 2012-04-12 15:31:14

Re: change...

bruce sean wrote:

#60 2012-04-12 15:31:58

Re: change...

joe wrote:

#61 2012-04-12 15:33:37

Re: change...

snguyen wrote:

bruce sean wrote:

#62 2012-04-12 15:40:17

Re: change...

bruce sean wrote:

snguyen wrote:

bruce sean wrote:

#63 2012-04-12 15:41:51

Re: change...

#64 2012-04-12 15:45:16

Re: change...

bruce sean wrote:

#65 2012-04-12 15:46:52

Re: change...

#66 2012-04-12 15:47:57

Re: change...

#67 2012-04-12 15:49:37

Re: change...

snguyen wrote:

#68 2012-04-12 15:52:17

Re: change...

bruce sean wrote:

#69 2012-04-12 15:53:30

Re: change...

bruce sean wrote:

snguyen wrote:

#70 2012-04-12 15:53:50

Re: change...

#71 2012-04-12 15:54:44

Re: change...

#72 2012-04-12 15:58:08

Re: change...

snguyen wrote:

bruce sean wrote:

snguyen wrote:

#73 2012-04-12 15:59:14

Re: change...

#74 2012-04-12 15:59:58

Re: change...

snguyen wrote:

#75 2012-04-12 16:01:39

Re: change...