KFA - Krishnamurti Foundation of America

snguyen wrote:

So for me, the great significance of the ending of thought lies in the ending of all those disorders in life, and without these disorders, the seeking for pleasure, security, mystery... naturally and beautifully thought is not arised, aroused.

I feel it this way now that when the products of thought end, thought is not. The products of thought are not abstract; they are real life attachment, reaction that bend the whole person in a certain fixed way. To deal with that, with life reality, is the real work, but not sitting around thinking it out.

Then, in one morning and then in another morning and so on, you see that thought has no content to arouse itself. It is automatic.

The ending of thought is only "significant" until it ends.  You will soon discover that ending is only the beginning and there are even denser layers that still remain.  The ending of the habit known as "thought" is actually the easy in comparison to what comes next...it only gets harder from there.  Good luck snuggy.

snguyen wrote:

Jayaraj wrote:

Well sir if thought has ended then you are observing the person or the object without the past.Therefore you are seeing & understanding the present state undistorted. So then you are responding to the actual position, not to an image, which is therefore to be correctly related.

Without the if, how does that come about: thought coming to an end? It means your life has changed significantly, right? Thought is not abstract because it has created and conditioned deeply the brain into patterns of fear, pleasure, the self, survival, longing for eternity...

I don't say if fear, hurt, pride, pleasure, ambition...have ended. I put a lot of hard work into the understanding of them, of myself, and they dissolve. They dissolve over nights, over many nights for me, slowly, patiently, in the movement of understanding.

So for me, the great significance of the ending of thought lies in the ending of all those disorders in life, and without these disorders, the seeking for pleasure, security, mystery... naturally and beautifully thought is not arised, aroused.

I feel it this way now that when the products of thought end, thought is not. The products of thought are not abstract; they are real life attachment, reaction that bend the whole person in a certain fixed way. To deal with that, with life reality, is the real work, but not sitting around thinking it out.

Then, in one morning and then in another morning and so on, you see that thought has no content to arouse itself. It is automatic.

Well yes, products of thought are not separate from thought.Ending of thought is ending of products also. But why do you separate disorders from seeking pleasure, security,mystery & so on? Are they all not disorders springing due to a central reason?

Yes sir, this requires a lot of hard work. I too work at it hard, not just think about it.

Jayaraj wrote:

snguyen wrote:

Jayaraj wrote:

Well sir if thought has ended then you are observing the person or the object without the past.Therefore you are seeing & understanding the present state undistorted. So then you are responding to the actual position, not to an image, which is therefore to be correctly related.

Without the if, how does that come about: thought coming to an end? It means your life has changed significantly, right? Thought is not abstract because it has created and conditioned deeply the brain into patterns of fear, pleasure, the self, survival, longing for eternity...

I don't say if fear, hurt, pride, pleasure, ambition...have ended. I put a lot of hard work into the understanding of them, of myself, and they dissolve. They dissolve over nights, over many nights for me, slowly, patiently, in the movement of understanding.

So for me, the great significance of the ending of thought lies in the ending of all those disorders in life, and without these disorders, the seeking for pleasure, security, mystery... naturally and beautifully thought is not arised, aroused.

I feel it this way now that when the products of thought end, thought is not. The products of thought are not abstract; they are real life attachment, reaction that bend the whole person in a certain fixed way. To deal with that, with life reality, is the real work, but not sitting around thinking it out.

Then, in one morning and then in another morning and so on, you see that thought has no content to arouse itself. It is automatic.

Well yes, products of thought are not separate from thought.Ending of thought is ending of products also. But why do you separate disorders from seeking pleasure, security,mystery & so on? Are they all not disorders springing due to a central reason?

Yes sir, this requires a lot of hard work. I too work at it hard, not just think about it.

No, I don't separate anything. They are all life, parts of life. And if understanding is total it must be the understanding of everything in life, the high and the low, pleasure and fear and sorrow, time, escape, division, thought... and going beyond them, the conditioning, the conditional which the old. It took hard work when I was so confused in the beginning, taking classes, but then when insight hits, something that is not of time operates, and it operates differently. Without time, meaning, can I look at everything anew, see, and then go on without carrying it over? No memory. It requires energy to look anew. In this way of looking, seeing life, there is no process, no residue, no carrying over, and therefore thought is quiet. What is in its place now is energy. If you know how to gather this energy, will it be building up, focusing, strengthening?

To gather knowledge, to accumulate experiences, is to corrupt this energy because then the old past is conditioning your looking and no matter how wide your experiences are, it is never free, never the entire vast life and the beyond understanding.

Jayaraj wrote:

Eden wrote:

The ending of the habit known as "thought" is actually the easy in comparison to what comes next...it only gets harder from there.

Jeez, you say this!! If you say this how did you say K was immature?

"Immature" is a relative term.

snguyen wrote:

Jayaraj wrote:

snguyen wrote:

Without the if, how does that come about: thought coming to an end? It means your life has changed significantly, right? Thought is not abstract because it has created and conditioned deeply the brain into patterns of fear, pleasure, the self, survival, longing for eternity...

I don't say if fear, hurt, pride, pleasure, ambition...have ended. I put a lot of hard work into the understanding of them, of myself, and they dissolve. They dissolve over nights, over many nights for me, slowly, patiently, in the movement of understanding.

So for me, the great significance of the ending of thought lies in the ending of all those disorders in life, and without these disorders, the seeking for pleasure, security, mystery... naturally and beautifully thought is not arised, aroused.

I feel it this way now that when the products of thought end, thought is not. The products of thought are not abstract; they are real life attachment, reaction that bend the whole person in a certain fixed way. To deal with that, with life reality, is the real work, but not sitting around thinking it out.

Then, in one morning and then in another morning and so on, you see that thought has no content to arouse itself. It is automatic.

Well yes, products of thought are not separate from thought.Ending of thought is ending of products also. But why do you separate disorders from seeking pleasure, security,mystery & so on? Are they all not disorders springing due to a central reason?

Yes sir, this requires a lot of hard work. I too work at it hard, not just think about it.

No, I don't separate anything. They are all life, parts of life. And if understanding is total it must be the understanding of everything in life, the high and the low, pleasure and fear and sorrow, time, escape, division, thought... and going beyond them, the conditioning, the conditional which the old. It took hard work when I was so confused in the beginning, taking classes, but then when insight hits, something that is not of time operates, and it operates differently. Without time, meaning, can I look at everything anew, see, and then go on without carrying it over? No memory. It requires energy to look anew. In this way of looking, seeing life, there is no process, no residue, no carrying over, and therefore thought is quiet. What is in its place now is energy. If you know how to gather this energy, will it be building up, focusing, strengthening?

To gather knowledge, to accumulate experiences, is to corrupt this energy because then the old past is conditioning your looking and no matter how wide your experiences are, it is never free, never the entire vast life and the beyond understanding.

Taking classes sir?

Yes, if thought is quiet then there is energy. Not robust energy but  with a  different quality. Energy that is not in conflict. That is not the outcome of effort.Unassuming , peaceful.