KFA - Krishnamurti Foundation of America

night wrote:

snguyen wrote:

night wrote:

Indeed. Caring is a romantic idea. Life will do what is necessary to go on, nurturing this one, destroying that one. All is in flux and self-balancing, simultaneously.

To have a mature reading of an entire post you are not supposed to pick just a few words out of context. I see this kind of narrowing things down to your own cut, is fragmentary.

Call it summarizing.

No, go further into it and question more, because if you stop so early I can stop too, don't mind. It is not a small subject. But up to you though.

snguyen wrote:

night wrote:

snguyen wrote:

To have a mature reading of an entire post you are not supposed to pick just a few words out of context. I see this kind of narrowing things down to your own cut, is fragmentary.

Call it summarizing.

No, go further into it and question more, because if you stop so early I can stop too, don't mind. It is not a small subject. But up to you though.

I will cut it short: you already have an idea of maturity and that what I say on this forum or how I approach posts is immature/superficial/shallow (you said so above and in other posts) so you want to go into it to 'explore it', while really just teaching me how to be mature, how to be sensitive, and all that. What K did for years with his audience.

Maybe that is your calling to be such a teacher, and I guess some people need this kind of guidance/hand-holding. But I don't.

Now if you don't like my style, that's fine. I totally understand differences of taste/inclination.

Last edited by night (2012-03-05 16:41:41)

snguyen wrote:

sds wrote:

Hi Snguyen,

Please forgive me for asking, but I cannot help it. I am curious. If you do not want to answer, no problem, but my heart tells me to ask.

Here it is:

Is what you are writing in this thread questions, statements, or prose?

Do you have any questions regarding change, transformation, or simply writing about it?

Have you had any personal experience in regards to change, transformation?

You seem like a decent person and sincere, and serious, but I just cannot tell where you are coming from. Whether from questioning or from knowing.

If you want to respond, I would love to hear where you are coming from and what your purpose is for being here in this forum, to learn or to share, etc....

What I write are more of statements than questions. I put questions or statements that I already found out certain answers for myself but they are put up for challenges from people. A dialogue is meaningful when two or more people work at similar intensity, which requires they must go into the subject sufficiently deeply enough, and the subject here is each of one’s own life in relationship to the phenomenon of existence.

I would have many questions for K if he was still alive but now I have to explore them myself alone, and not in this inadequate forum. Not that K can give help to me directly but because he said many things that lead my exploration and I want to have a conversation with him regarding pertinent subjects.

About personal change and transformation, that is a must, but what is the limit of change? If you have a few second glimpse at how immense the truth is, then you also see how immense the challenge and responsibility you are facing. Change, to me, does not have a limit, a stop.

The purpose on this forum? I am not sure if there is any purpose that can stand for long. Express what I found, impact of relationship, read others, learn about people ...

Thanks Sni for responding and sharing. I better understand where you are coming from....

I too would have many questions for K if he was still alive. But I doubt he would answer them in any way that he has not already answered every other question. Not by giving a direct answer, anything positive, but would give me something negative, negate something and give me something to think about or work on on my own.....

Eden wrote:

snguyen wrote:

Organized religion, nationalism, economic competition, racial division, tradition, culture, all of these are but the movement of thought through time. And then at the core of it all is the self, the ego, the fragmentation and division in you and me. A fundamental change is an obsolete of all these and it must happen in your deepest recesses of your being.

Great. Why not stay with the "core" then?  Why not stick with the root of roots?  Why do you and pearl and others here endlessly point out the tiny branches? The branches are not only totally irrelevant, they are also essentially infinite. 

If you want to know what's really old--it is all this talk of the old. How old!  It seems that the two of you are going to be talking about how the old is old till the day you die. Now if that isn't old I don't know what is. 

Wholeness is like square one. Once you are whole why would you sit around talking about fragmentation and the branches unless you are are still fragmented.  How about talking about life beyond wholeness and what that looks like and feels like in day to day life, in relationships, in work, in diet, in sleep, in expression through the body.  How about something new for a change.  Or is it that you are moved to be kindergarten teachers and since no one will pay you for that the forum has become a platform for your charity?  Free therapy for all--is that it?

You can be like a butterfly spending the days wandering at one flower after another and soon dying away and still everything is old, repetitive and exhausted for you. If you understand all these things: sorrow, loneliness, thought, time, sensation and they ended or in a deep process of ending, then the silence that I talk about has no boundary. But you are too noisy and probably not in another life time which you won’t have, for it is only one chance now to make it, to understand it.

It is not the search, the craving after sensations that bring in new quality for life, but rather it imprisons you in desperation of the demand for more sensation. Why did the Buddha, a great lover of silence, not teach about all the “new” worldly things? How about Lao Tzu, boring eh? K, similarly repeated same old boring topics, but at the very end would ask if the mind has come to that silence.

The flowering of all sensations, the opening up of all sensitivity levels throughout one’s entire being, are also the beautiful and natural ending of them all into that shiny water surface of a deep quiet lake reflecting the whole sky in its clarity. And to come to this is of greatest difficulty. You won’t be able to come to this silence if everything is not thoroughly understood for any residue left over will be the rise for noise, the hidden cause for sorrow, the cry of a time-bound lifetime. So, you think you well understand things in life, but in fact your noisy immaturity indicates the ever lack of it.

you are telling yourself stories again si...who can wait while the pretty mud settles?

Sni wrote: "So, you think you well understand things in life, but in fact your noisy immaturity indicates the ever lack of it."

I think you were responding to Eden in this post, so hence I am going to assume that you were addressing him and his immaturity.

Sir, I am not so sure about that. I thought that too at one time, but the more I stay open to him and read him precisely, intelligently, with an open mind, the more and more I find wisdom and insight in his posts.

K spoke to all in his talks, to the utterly immature and those who were very mature, he made no distinctions.

Why do we make distinctions on here, on this forum, between the immature and the mature. I think it is best to follow K's example and to just talk to all and let the chips fall where they may.

snguyen wrote:

You can be like a butterfly spending the days wandering at one flower after another and soon dying away and still everything is old, repetitive and exhausted for you. If you understand all these things: sorrow, loneliness, thought, time, sensation and they ended or in a deep process of ending, then the silence that I talk about has no boundary. But you are too noisy and probably not in another life time which you won’t have, for it is only one chance now to make it, to understand it.

It is not the search, the craving after sensations that bring in new quality for life, but rather it imprisons you in desperation of the demand for more sensation. Why did the Buddha, a great lover of silence, not teach about all the “new” worldly things?

If you are looking to go beyond the world and sensation I am happy to recommend some tall bridges. (google maps available upon request)

This body for one is far more interested in bringing total openness and full consciousness into sensation, into Her, the world, the Goddess, mother nature, the feminine, life(call Her what you will). 

This desire to put chaos in order or to bring Life to silence, or to go beyond emotion and sensation and dwell in a place of nothingness, is the oldest spiritual non-sense around.  It's as old as old can be, and it's the essence of all the bullshit masculine religions that litter the planet.    Eventually you may out grow out of it, or perhaps you wont. Once you do, you will neither demand more sensation, nor desire to flower it into oblivion, rather you will walk into all of life with infinite openness and pure consciousness inhabiting the body fully.  When the nothingness of pure consciousness(He) meets the fullness of sensation(She) in love through the body, that is the explosion of creation.

Eden wrote:

snguyen wrote:

You can be like a butterfly spending the days wandering at one flower after another and soon dying away and still everything is old, repetitive and exhausted for you. If you understand all these things: sorrow, loneliness, thought, time, sensation and they ended or in a deep process of ending, then the silence that I talk about has no boundary. But you are too noisy and probably not in another life time which you won’t have, for it is only one chance now to make it, to understand it.

It is not the search, the craving after sensations that bring in new quality for life, but rather it imprisons you in desperation of the demand for more sensation. Why did the Buddha, a great lover of silence, not teach about all the “new” worldly things?

If you are looking to go beyond the world and sensation I am happy to recommend some tall bridges. (google maps available upon request)

This body for one is far more interested in bringing total openness and full consciousness into sensation, into Her, the world, the Goddess, mother nature, the feminine, life(call Her what you will). 

This desire to put chaos in order or to bring Life to silence, or to go beyond emotion and sensation and dwell in a place of nothingness, is the oldest spiritual non-sense around.  It's as old as old can be, and it's the essence of all the bullshit masculine religions that litter the planet.    Eventually you may out grow out of it, or perhaps you wont. Once you do, you will neither demand more sensation, nor desire to flower it into oblivion, rather you will walk into all of life with infinite openness and pure consciousness inhabiting the body fully.  When the nothingness of pure consciousness(He) meets the fullness of sensation(She) in love through the body, that is the explosion of creation.

Eden, if I am understanding you correctly, it is all about inhabiting the body fully and expressing through the body. It is not about nothingness or just pure consciousness, but about expression, and that is through the body, the only vehicle we have. A total opening, total openness of the body/mind/heart.

Looks like you're blind in  one eye and telling yourself stories about people who tell themselves stories...really, sir, open your eyes.

Eden wrote:

snguyen wrote:

You can be like a butterfly spending the days wandering at one flower after another and soon dying away and still everything is old, repetitive and exhausted for you. If you understand all these things: sorrow, loneliness, thought, time, sensation and they ended or in a deep process of ending, then the silence that I talk about has no boundary. But you are too noisy and probably not in another life time which you won’t have, for it is only one chance now to make it, to understand it.

It is not the search, the craving after sensations that bring in new quality for life, but rather it imprisons you in desperation of the demand for more sensation. Why did the Buddha, a great lover of silence, not teach about all the “new” worldly things?

If you are looking to go beyond the world and sensation I am happy to recommend some tall bridges. (google maps available upon request)

This body for one is far more interested in bringing total openness and full consciousness into sensation, into Her, the world, the Goddess, mother nature, the feminine, life(call Her what you will). 

This desire to put chaos in order or to bring Life to silence, or to go beyond emotion and sensation and dwell in a place of nothingness, is the oldest spiritual non-sense around.  It's as old as old can be, and it's the essence of all the bullshit masculine religions that litter the planet.    Eventually you may out grow out of it, or perhaps you wont. Once you do, you will neither demand more sensation, nor desire to flower it into oblivion, rather you will walk into all of life with infinite openness and pure consciousness inhabiting the body fully.  When the nothingness of pure consciousness(He) meets the fullness of sensation(She) in love through the body, that is the explosion of creation.

Sounds like propoganda.  Just more shallow, empty words, no substance, no real depths.

edited- maybe, snguyen would profit from reading this, I don't know, but in my understadning this is nothing but some second, glossy cheap lines lifted from some tantra text, nothing new, nothing to do with sincere, real, genuine inquiry in my understanding.

Last edited by pearl (2012-03-06 13:15:33)

Nice stories of more stories, nothing new.  You haven't contributed anything into what change is.  Just content with your personal jabs as usual.  No signs of honest inquiry.  But carry on sir.

brother, you have interfered over and over and now feeling sanctimonious that it comes back at you, ha,ha.  But, I was simply wondering why you tell yourself stories about others telling themselves stories...it is evident you're running away from something in your life, and using this forum and it's participants to hide, not whatsoever interested to look at your fears, the need to tell yourself stories.  Time to inquire and stop telling yourself stories about others telling themselves stories in my understanding.

No doubt, Snguyen may find it of great valvue and feel what you said has a great value, and he's free to do so.  But, it's evident to me that you are not interested in contributing to what it means, change.  But hey carry on as you wish if that's what you want.