KFA - Krishnamurti Foundation of America

RJ wrote:

natura wrote:

So, plenty to do, anyway…

Not just arsing around and wait for unexpected bliss

hey wait a second,

what do you have against arsing around?
even if you aren't an Australian, you are in Australia, that's all anyone ever does over there, arses around. Oh sure every now and again they send someone into a hole to dig out some more gold or uranium or whatever, then someone else has to send it to China, and a third person has to bank the massive cheque that arrives on a super-freighter the next month, everyone else just arses around.

anyway, 'plenty to do' eh?

what is this 'plenty to do' business and how can it not just cause us to further get in our own way?

Well, yeah, I’m an Australian for many years now and Lie-Back life style is not really strange for me, that’s right.

But the ‘plenty to do’ is relating rather to spiritual business in your inner world. That way, the more Lie-Back opportunities you have the better your chances supposed to be for you to open that ‘window’.

But still it’s a very hard business. Much harder than just mining around and wasting for military purposes whatever it is the Mother Nature holds in the bowels of the earth.

Last edited by natura (2012-02-28 03:12:55)

RJ wrote:

Eden would probably rag on me if he was online right now,

what is that which you neither go to, nor comes to you?

Eden wrote:

snguyen wrote:

Open all your windows, not your neighbor's.

and then open your neighbor's.

Unfortunately impossible; strictly private area.

You can offer your help but you cannot do it for someone else.

And particularly not if the neighbour doesn’t want to open that window at all; if the whole matter is strange and fearful for them.

Eden wrote:

natura wrote:

Eden wrote:

and then open your neighbor's.

Unfortunately impossible; strictly private area.

You can offer your help but you cannot do it for someone else.

And particularly not if the neighbour doesn’t want to open that window at all; if the whole matter is strange and fearful for them.

choose a better neighbor.

no, Eden, wouldn’t help

Maybe you believe in redeemer?

Eden wrote:

snguyen wrote:

Open all your windows, not your neighbor's.

and then open your neighbor's.

stop opening bloody windows
did you all grow up in a tent?

'shut the doors and close the windows'
surely you guys know where this comes from, it's one of the great classics

ok, sit nicely on the mat, fold your arms, Uncle Ruggajug's gonna tell you a poem

"who knows doesn't talk
who talks doesn't know

shut the doors
close the windows
blunt the edge
loose the knot
dim the light

be one with the dust of the way
until you come to the deep sameness

then you won't be controlled by love or by rejection
you won't be controlled by profit or by loss
you won't be controlled by praise or humiliation
then you will have honour under heaven"


capiche?

Eden wrote:

snguyen wrote:

Open all your windows, not your neighbor's.

and then open your neighbor's.

Somehow people know if you leave your windows open or you will close it any moment when the wind turns chilly. When all your windows are open, maybe your neighbors open theirs also to come close to you and talk. If you try to open their windows their alarm system will call police because you are a thief.

snguyen wrote:

RJ wrote:

snguyen wrote:

How about this good brother,

"you must make all efforts and struggles" to die to everything you know for "you can't go to it" carrying any single thing. Leave your windows open unconsciously and MAYBE it comes to you.

In the meantime you live happily ))))

yes
Buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut!

whilst you are making all those efforts and struggles to die to everything you know so you aren't carrying one single thing...

aren't you really just trying to go to it? (however it might look like a retreating action)

you could in fact say that all of that is the exact opposite of

'choiceless awareness'

for example

seem to have picked that phrase up somwhere, can't put my finger on it right now,
does it sound familiar?

yeah, negation as a gain is not negation. Dying as a trade is not renouncement. But don't you think that this choiceless awareness business requires a ton of energy to stick to it?

this my friend seems to be the gnarly, slippery, prickly point!

yes I do emphatically think that, because it has been my experience for far longer that I have been alive than I haven't, but that doesn't mean it is the 'way', (to use a well-worn, inadequate, but as good as any and better than most phrase).

We may both have found that a ton of energy seems to be required, we may (and I think we are) quite wrong that we are going about things in the right way.

K, for instance, often mentions how effort is a distraction, if something is hard, difficult, then by its very nature it must be unsustainable, forced.

It is a marvellously maddening mystery. How we must try so as not to try...

snguyen wrote:

So everything is known, said, written down, and the right question is, "Is it not the practice that counts, and not the hymns?"

Practice - interesting topic. As I see it, at the core we are already complete, already love, already infinite consciousness. In that sense, there is nothing to do, there is nothing to become, no effort to become love, etc. The doing is optional, and it is to see to what degree one is moved to convey that love into the world of forms, and in what way. That conveying of love is an art unique to each. And like any art form, practice allows the nuances to come through.

#36 

snguyen wrote:

Eden wrote:

snguyen wrote:

Open all your windows, not your neighbor's.

and then open your neighbor's.

Somehow people know if you leave your windows open or you will close it any moment when the wind turns chilly.

It’s not that kind of wind that might have qualities, snguyen; chilly, hot or something else like that.
This expression about the wind is just a parable.

And people never know when their ‘windows’ are open enough for wind to come, because it comes at its own discretion anytime.

But people can be well aware when their ‘widows’ are closed; this part is in their competence.

In other words, be always vigilant without knowing anything for sure.

snguyen wrote:

When all your windows are open, maybe your neighbors open theirs also to come close to you and talk. If you try to open their windows their alarm system will call police because you are a thief.

How can you do something with neighbour’s windows if you don’t know the matter about yours own?

To talk about that’s another matter. It might be helpful, indeed.
However, never if someone is sure about result.

RJ  “this my friend seems to be the gnarly, slippery, prickly point!

yes I do emphatically think that, because it has been my experience for far longer that I have been alive than I haven't, but that doesn't mean it is the 'way', (to use a well-worn, inadequate, but as good as any and better than most phrase).”

It is good to know that you also have that untold and beyond the measure of time experience. Any serious seeker of understanding would do so. Have you read The Path from K’s writing? No, there is no clear-cut way at all. “Truth is a pathless land”. All searches must come to an end, either search for self knowledge or the unknown. Search for self knowledge will come to an end because it is limited and thus has an ending. Search for the unknown is vanity out of a desirous mind, and therefore it is never a concern. The mind is then silence and in silence the happening insight makes it even further silent.

RJ  “We may both have found that a ton of energy seems to be required, we may (and I think we are) quite wrong that we are going about things in the right way.”


No, I don’t see it so at all. First, be rational and orderly in the usage of energy. People use their energy in chasing after money, security, power, knowledge, belief, family, conformity… All their enormous energy is spent here day in day out and they say they don’t have the energy. Yet, some would become a monk, denying all things but the last worldly thing which is the search for the beyond. This is quite wrong first, right here.


RJ  “K, for instance, often mentions how effort is a distraction, if something is hard, difficult, then by its very nature it must be unsustainable, forced.

It is a marvellously maddening mystery. How we must try so as not to try...”


Effort to become different than what is, is the self. But to watch the (violent) interference of thought rushing into what is requires a lot of energy. The very process of watching takes energy from you but gathering it instead of dissipating it. This whole watching thing releases energy, builds it up and with high energy what seems unsustainable is natural.

Then there comes a day when you travel much more effortlessly. A mystery, yes, but so its ecstasy is also mysterious.

RJ wrote:

Eden wrote:

RJ wrote:

Eden would probably rag on me if he was online right now,

what is that which you neither go to, nor comes to you?

ok wait, I've got it
that which I neither go to or get come to me

Mormons!

was that the right answer?

Republican fundraisers?
Acid indigestion after deep fried chocolate donuts?
Sleazy sex therapists with 5 o'clock shadows who're onto the racket of all time?

am I getting warm?

Hot as hell,

you, sly fox.

you're fire is better banked and edged than mine Joe
but I think the same _____ for the lie burns just as well

me old 'pitch black pot'

kirsten wrote:

of course
it takes one to know one

given the self-evident truth of that
we really shouldn't say anything to anyone about anything
when you think about it.


humanity, one giant nudist colony.