KFA - Krishnamurti Foundation of America

tree · 2012-02-26 19:23:16

hermann wrote:
...If we could come to terms with our complete uncertainty..

what terms?

Jayaraj · 2012-02-27 06:11:00

Tom wrote:
You see, much of the fear of dying stems from the belief that after death there is yet another form of living, call it resurrection, reincarnation, the next dimension or whatever else you like. We don't just fear death; we fear the continuity of living in another form.

Nope sir. I disagree fully. It is letting go man is scared of.Man is clamoring for continuity & made many theories. You have stated the opposite!!

Jayaraj · 2012-02-27 06:15:17

Teulada wrote:
Jayaraj wrote:
Tom wrote:

I don't know. Are you afraid of death?
When I think about death? No. But frankly I don't know how I will feel actually facing death.

15 years ago I faced death.I was so weak my knees were buckling to collapse from time to time.One night I was so weak I was fighting off sleep.I feared falling asleep feeling I would not wake up.But I have been looking at things a great deal since then.Don't feel will have much difficulty now.I have found actually facing a situation is quite a different matter from speculating about it!
Thank Jayaraj for this. Honest, straighforward posts from honest people are always the best.

I know what you mean. I have been in the same situation. Losing consciousness not knowing if that was that.
Guess what? It felt absolutely wonderful...

Be well Jayaraj

T

Thanks Teulada. Be well.....

Tom · 2012-02-27 13:51:54

tree wrote:
...illogical assertions such as 'This desire for a fulfilled psychological life presupposes that we even have a psychological life'...

Why is it illogical?

Tom · 2012-02-27 13:56:36

hermann wrote:
A little while ago we were talking about the the complete uncertainty of everything in our lives. Death is the only certainty. If we could come to terms with our complete uncertainty, we might be free of the fear of death.

It all depends upon the nature of the fear. What is the fear of death?

Tom · 2012-02-27 14:03:02

Jayaraj wrote:
Tom wrote:
You see, much of the fear of dying stems from the belief that after death there is yet another form of living, call it resurrection, reincarnation, the next dimension or whatever else you like. We don't just fear death; we fear the continuity of living in another form.
Nope, sir. I disagree fully. It is letting go man is scared of. Man is clamoring for continuity & made many theories. You have stated the opposite!!

Yes, man may be clamouring for continuity, but it is nevertheless continuity on one's own terms. After all, one clamours for heaven, not for hell. Therefore, the moment one starts to believe in the continuity of a spirit or a soul or an essence, there is always the possibility of being wrong about it. So belief in continuity inevitably breeds fear. It is not the letting go that scares us; it is where we might find ourselves after we have let go.

pitfalll · 2012-02-27 14:05:55

Tom wrote:
pitfalll wrote:
One is left with the fear of being separated from all that one holds dear.
But why does one hold on to a belief? Is it not more about the believer than the belief? While I have my beliefs, I am still very much there at the centre; I exist. But is not that very existence based upon belief?

We are imaginary beings, but that being still comes to an end,which it does not mormally do. That is one cause of fear.

tree · 2012-02-27 14:26:11

tree wrote:
...illogical assertions such as 'This desire for a fulfilled psychological life presupposes that we even have a psychological life'...

Tom wrote:
Why is it illogical?

the full quote

Tom wrote:
We are not content to live merely physically; we want a full and fulfilled psychological life. This desire for a fulfilled psychological life presupposes that we even have a psychological life. I doubt it. We have a psychological continuation, that's all. Anything that continues is not a living thing; it cannot be living

psychological life is a biological fact, language and culture exists because there is psychological life, your doubt is psychological life as are your words and special definitions

Tom · 2012-02-27 14:51:40

pitfalll wrote:
We are imaginary beings, but that being still comes to an end, which it does not normally do. That is one cause of fear.

What do you mean, we are imaginary beings?

Tom · 2012-02-27 14:58:51

tree wrote:
Tom wrote:
We are not content to live merely physically; we want a full and fulfilled psychological life. This desire for a fulfilled psychological life presupposes that we even have a psychological life. I doubt it. We have a psychological continuation, that's all. Anything that continues is not a living thing; it cannot be living.
Psychological life is a biological fact. Language and culture exists because there is psychological life. Your doubt is psychological life as are your words and special definitions.

What do you mean, it's a biological fact? Do you mean it is immutable? Do you mean that because it has existed for two thousand years it must continue indefinitely? Or you doubt it, start to question it, probe carefully the nature of it, including the nature of the doubt. One may be wrong about it. So one has to be very careful not just to reach a conclusion and stop there. When you reach such a conclusion that's the very essence of getting caught up in words.

Last edited by Tom (2012-02-27 15:02:52)

tree · 2012-02-27 15:07:55

Tom wrote:
tree wrote:
Tom wrote:
We are not content to live merely physically; we want a full and fulfilled psychological life. This desire for a fulfilled psychological life presupposes that we even have a psychological life. I doubt it. We have a psychological continuation, that's all. Anything that continues is not a living thing; it cannot be living.
Psychological life is a biological fact. Language and culture exists because there is psychological life. Your doubt is psychological life as are your words and special definitions.
What do you mean, it's a biological fact? Do you mean it is immutable? Do you mean that because it has existed for two thousand years it must continue indefinitely? Or you doubt it, start to question it, probe carefully the nature of it, including the nature of the doubt. One may be wrong about it. So one has to be very careful not just to reach a conclusion and stop there. When you reach such a conclusion that's the very essence of getting caught up in words.

psychological life is a brain function, it is genetic and is what makes us 'human'

Tom · 2012-02-27 15:16:25

tree wrote:
Psychological life is a brain function. It is genetic and is what makes us 'human'.

I'm glad you put it in quotes because, sir, we haven't a clue what it means to be human. Do you know what that word means? It doesn't just mean someone who is part animal and part machine.

It's up to you, what comprises or doesn't comprise your psychological life. Don't blame the genes.

snguyen · 2012-02-27 15:16:58

tree wrote:
psychological life is a brain function, it is genetic and is what makes us 'human'

or

psychological life is a brain dysfunction, it is genetic and is what makes us 'inhuman'

tree · 2012-02-27 15:22:20

snguyen wrote:
tree wrote:
psychological life is a brain function, it is genetic and is what makes us 'human'
or

psychological life is a brain dysfunction, it is genetic and is what makes us 'inhuman'

psychological life is....

good luck

tree · 2012-02-27 15:25:35

Tom wrote:
tree wrote:
Psychological life is a brain function. It is genetic and is what makes us 'human'.
I'm glad you put it in quotes because, sir, we haven't a clue what it means to be human. Do you know what that word means? It doesn't just mean someone who is part animal and part machine.

It's up to you, what comprises or doesn't comprise your psychological life. Don't blame the genes.

well Tom, that's different than saying it doesn't exist

snguyen · 2012-02-27 15:31:40

tree wrote:
snguyen wrote:
tree wrote:
psychological life is a brain function, it is genetic and is what makes us 'human'
or

psychological life is a brain dysfunction, it is genetic and is what makes us 'inhuman'
psychological life is....

good luck

Here is luck:

psychological life is all false. When you can say that as a fact in you, you are free to go.

tree · 2012-02-27 15:37:02

snguyen wrote:
tree wrote:
snguyen wrote:

or

psychological life is a brain dysfunction, it is genetic and is what makes us 'inhuman'
psychological life is....

good luck
Here is luck:

psychological life is all false. When you can say that as a fact in you, you are free to go.

what says 'psychological life is all false'....?

snguyen · 2012-02-27 15:39:20

I really don't feel a thing of it in me right now, and that is freedom. When I need to relate to people with psychological life, I go with them accordingly for their sake, but I don't need it.

snguyen · 2012-02-27 15:40:52

Tree, in total silence with its own causeless happiness for silence is empty, there is no psychological life.

snguyen · 2012-02-27 15:42:25

tree wrote:
just so

No, the reward for my correct answer must be a nice picture Tree.)))

tree · 2012-02-27 15:46:16

look in any direction

kirsten · 2012-02-27 16:01:01

it's free

RJ · 2012-02-27 16:37:46

hermann · 2012-02-28 10:18:53

Tom wrote:
hermann wrote:
A little while ago we were talking about the the complete uncertainty of everything in our lives. Death is the only certainty. If we could come to terms with our complete uncertainty, we might be free of the fear of death.
It all depends upon the nature of the fear. What is the fear of death?

I don't know whether there is any such thing specifically as the fear of death. I may be afraid of what is in store for me - afraid of the the future - and death is certainly part of that. But it doesn't feel very tangible to me.

Tom · 2012-02-28 13:16:35

tree wrote:
well, Tom, that's different than saying it doesn't exist

I said I doubt there is such a thing as a psychological life. A psychological life implies a corresponding psychological death. But we seem to want only a psychological continuation, which is something neither living nor dying.

KFA - Krishnamurti Foundation of America

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#76 2012-02-26 19:23:16

Re: Why are we afraid of death?

hermann wrote:

#77 2012-02-27 06:11:00

Re: Why are we afraid of death?

Tom wrote:

#78 2012-02-27 06:15:17

Re: Why are we afraid of death?

Teulada wrote:

Jayaraj wrote:

Tom wrote:

#79 2012-02-27 13:51:54

Re: Why are we afraid of death?

tree wrote:

#80 2012-02-27 13:56:36

Re: Why are we afraid of death?

hermann wrote:

#81 2012-02-27 14:03:02

Re: Why are we afraid of death?

Jayaraj wrote:

Tom wrote:

#82 2012-02-27 14:05:55

Re: Why are we afraid of death?

Tom wrote:

pitfalll wrote:

#83 2012-02-27 14:26:11

Re: Why are we afraid of death?

tree wrote:

Tom wrote:

Tom wrote:

#84 2012-02-27 14:51:40

Re: Why are we afraid of death?

pitfalll wrote:

#85 2012-02-27 14:58:51

Re: Why are we afraid of death?

tree wrote:

Tom wrote:

#86 2012-02-27 15:07:55

Re: Why are we afraid of death?

Tom wrote:

tree wrote:

Tom wrote:

#87 2012-02-27 15:16:25

Re: Why are we afraid of death?

tree wrote:

#88 2012-02-27 15:16:58

Re: Why are we afraid of death?

tree wrote:

#89 2012-02-27 15:22:20

Re: Why are we afraid of death?

snguyen wrote:

tree wrote:

#90 2012-02-27 15:25:35

Re: Why are we afraid of death?

Tom wrote:

tree wrote:

#91 2012-02-27 15:31:40

Re: Why are we afraid of death?

tree wrote:

snguyen wrote:

tree wrote:

#92 2012-02-27 15:37:02

Re: Why are we afraid of death?

snguyen wrote:

tree wrote:

snguyen wrote:

#93 2012-02-27 15:39:20

Re: Why are we afraid of death?

#94 2012-02-27 15:40:52

Re: Why are we afraid of death?

#95 2012-02-27 15:42:25

Re: Why are we afraid of death?

tree wrote:

#96 2012-02-27 15:46:16

Re: Why are we afraid of death?

#97 2012-02-27 16:01:01

Re: Why are we afraid of death?

#98 2012-02-27 16:37:46