KFA - Krishnamurti Foundation of America

So you're saying that it's a matter of choice. You have your way of acting IN RESPONSE to seeing the facts, and another acts differently. Which means you're separating the seeing from the action. Seeing is the same, you say, but actions are different. Is it possible?

bruce sean wrote:

night wrote:

bruce sean wrote:

The way you're taking all this is not sacred.

duality is sacred.

What are you, like 12?

The essence of duality is the idea that there exists something that is not sacred.

night wrote:

bruce sean wrote:

night wrote:

duality is sacred.

What are you, like 12?

The essence of duality is the idea that there exists something that is not sacred.

or something that is sacred...there is no difference.

night wrote:

bruce sean wrote:

night wrote:

duality is sacred.

What are you, like 12?

The essence of duality is the idea that there exists something that is not sacred.

You are confusing seeing that everything is sacred, with understanding it as an idea. In the latter case you get the impression that you can do whatever you want, it doesn't matter, everything is sacred anyway. It is so obvious it's just an idea.

Magnetic wrote:

bruce sean wrote:

So you're saying that it's a matter of choice. You have your way of acting IN RESPONSE to seeing the facts, and another acts differently. Which means you're separating the seeing from the action. Seeing is the same, you say, but actions are different. Is it possible?

If we see the same, obviously we will act the same, but here it is, who sees the SAME? its a matter of Awareness, that comprehansive choice which comes through awareness, wont be the same to me and you. As AM AWARE, the relative responsibilities are answers to YOUR INDIVDUALITY, in that YOU and I will appear to take different Aproach, even if we ARE AWARE OF ALL THAT IS. You are MADE of THE SAME STUFF as AM, but YOUR-STUFF will MOVE differently in relationship to another, and be ABSOLUTELY SO only TO-IT-SELF.

In Short, ALL THAT IS, is the same STUFF, but the STUFF when they Realize they are not-separeate and are ALL THAT IS, will still move in UNIQUE WAY in Realationship. Action cannot be Separated from the Individual, AS THE ABSOLUTE i do NOT ACT, am THE SOURCE from which all ACTION take their ENERGY AND BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEING, forming magnificently ENDLESSLY, Consciously, joyfully, HAPPY happy HAPPY.........AM WHOLE INDIVIDUAL, The Essence and the appearant FORM-ATION, IS MY BEING.

We're not considering trivial actions such as going to take a shower when the body needs it, or postponing that 'till later, and doing something else in the meantime, or not doing anything at all. I'm not trying to create robots.

  We're talking about seeing the mess that we're ALL in, not individually, but together. Can there be a different action when you see that someone is suffering? Because you don't you care, you have affection, which is part of seeing, and so how can you NOT do something about that?

bruce sean wrote:

night wrote:

bruce sean wrote:

What are you, like 12?

The essence of duality is the idea that there exists something that is not sacred.

You are confusing seeing that everything is sacred, with understanding it as an idea. In the latter case you get the impression that you can do whatever you want, it doesn't matter, everything is sacred anyway. It is so obvious it's just an idea.

to the dualistic mind, the mind that is whole appears to be utterly dualistic.  such is your totally distorted perception brucey. it's so obvious that what is moving you is duality--a fragmented perception of the whole of life.  it's been proven to you time and time again. 

To divide life into the sacred and the non-sacred it the action of a framgented/dualistic mind.  You cannot hide your duality no matter how hard you try.

You make excellent point, Eden, and if I may just add a few things that came up here even though it was not dircted to me.

Eden wrote:

Sensitivity is openness.  No two bodies are open with the exact same openness and with the exact same energy and vitality flowing through them.  The response to suffering in the world will never be the same in two bodies, ever.  Not in a million years.

You are in a way right, but then it s also possible for two bodies and minds to be open with the same level of immensity of openness.  In other words there are really not many levels of openness.  One is openness, or simply shut out.  and being totally open you may meet some who are open tooo, and other times those who aren't.  there is no such thing as little openness, or too much openness to life.

Eden wrote:

One person may see that they are insensitive to the suffering and therefore may feel pulled to solitude and healing stillness whereas another body may instantly spring into action by talking or teaching. One body may be very tired and need rest first before it can help anyone, whereas another body is full of energy and feels pulled to jump right in.  One body may feel pulled to heal the suffering in one's own family first, before it can expand beyond that.  That body may see that those closest to them can be influenced the most, whereas another body may feel pulled to fly to the other side of the world to teach total strangers. Another body sees that it must secure food and shelter first before it can have the energy do anything else, whereas another body has excess resources at its disposal to give.

In the above said, it seems to me that both people are still suffering, the one who is trying to find security for his own family, and the one who is preaching, trying to save some people in the other side of the world.  Neither are free of sorrow themselves, or are they?

Eden wrote:

Only a very narrow mind concludes that the response to suffering will always look the same.  A narrow mind like that will only reproduce its own narrowness, which will inevitably become control as it will seek to eliminate from the earth all those movements which it doesn't deem as 'compassion', using oneself as the model of perfection.  Unless others respond just like 'he' does to suffering, 'he' will always conclude that it is not compassion or love or whatever.

Yes, absolutely.  The christians, the moslems, the communisits all tried to do this in the name of compassion, which is actually control, not freedom.

Eden wrote:

One can only transmit or reproduce that which you are.  If you are tired, you will transmit and reproduce tiredness...if you are dull, you will transmit and reproduce dullness.  If you are a talking head full of duality and images of what compassion must look like, you will reproduce that.

Magnetic wrote:

bruce sean wrote:

Magnetic wrote:

If we see the same, obviously we will act the same, but here it is, who sees the SAME? its a matter of Awareness, that comprehansive choice which comes through awareness, wont be the same to me and you. As AM AWARE, the relative responsibilities are answers to YOUR INDIVDUALITY, in that YOU and I will appear to take different Aproach, even if we ARE AWARE OF ALL THAT IS. You are MADE of THE SAME STUFF as AM, but YOUR-STUFF will MOVE differently in relationship to another, and be ABSOLUTELY SO only TO-IT-SELF.

In Short, ALL THAT IS, is the same STUFF, but the STUFF when they Realize they are not-separeate and are ALL THAT IS, will still move in UNIQUE WAY in Realationship. Action cannot be Separated from the Individual, AS THE ABSOLUTE i do NOT ACT, am THE SOURCE from which all ACTION take their ENERGY AND BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEING, forming magnificently ENDLESSLY, Consciously, joyfully, HAPPY happy HAPPY.........AM WHOLE INDIVIDUAL, The Essence and the appearant FORM-ATION, IS MY BEING.

We're not considering trivial actions such as going to take a shower when the body needs it, or postponing that 'till later, and doing something else in the meantime, or not doing anything at all. I'm not trying to create robots.

  We're talking about seeing the mess that we're ALL in, not individually, but together. Can there be a different action when you see that someone is suffering? Because you don't you care, you have affection, which is part of seeing, and so how can you NOT do something about that?

We may TOGETHER establish that someone is suffering, the world is SUFFERING, the Galaxy is suffering, but the action(the words, body gestures, the inquiry, lips, thinking, emotions, feelings, which is not trivial but the ACTION) to help, wont be the same. Seeing doesn't have inherent in-it-SELF the absolute answer in relationship to another, rather it is COMPLETE only to IT-SELF. I can see and through perception break the conditions of my own mind and end suffering, but that SEEING is not the absolute ANSWER to ANOTHER as it is TO ME, so in Relationship there must be consideration and willingness for both minds to put their energies in one direction with the same intensity, and that is up to the Individual, which never meets the OTHER with the same ENERGY and Willingness, there is always different ENERGY involved in Relationships, and thus DIFFERENT SEEING. We literally DO NOT SEE(Comprehend) the SAME, no matter if we agree on few things here and there, relationship cannot END, as no-TWO minds will find ABSOLUTE common ground and be perfect COPY of the OTHER.

So did you decide in advance that a conditioned mind cannot possibly ever listen to a free mind?

joe wrote:

bruce sean wrote:

joe wrote:

or something that is sacred...there is no difference.

It could be, but not necessarily.

ha...care to elaborate your thinking?

I think you know: it may NOT be an idea. Which means a contact, or a part of this immense energy.

bruce sean wrote:

joe wrote:

bruce sean wrote:

It could be, but not necessarily.

ha...care to elaborate your thinking?

I think you know: it may NOT be an idea. Which means a contact, or a part of this immense energy.

which means a posit of oneself, and this "immense" energy.

Magnetic wrote:

bruce sean wrote:

Aah, I can't accept that: how can a fact be 'your fact'? Can you elaborate on this?

okay let use your previews post about the methods where i posted the guy sitting under the tree and you said: THIS IS ABSOLUTELY WORTHLESS. This is TRUE for YOU, it is ABSOLUTE WORTHLESS, and i asked if you even saw the videos, you said: No, i have no interest. So you did no go THAT WAY, as the truth for you is that it is WORTHLESS.
To me HOWEVER it is not WORTHLESS, to me the FACT is the guy sitting under the tree, investigating layers of consciousness, through different methods. Am aware of his consciousness, and see why he is doing it, TO HIM what he does, helps to understand the energies of his being, and he wants to handle them. He is learning to handle the ENERGIES that IS-HIMSELF. So to me the fact is his conditions as they are, it is irrelevant to my OPINION, it does not matter what i think of him, of his way, my observation, the fact to me is what he is, and what he does, as HE IS. 

As am aware, fact is WHAT IS, and what is in relationship, changes. What is, CANNOT be held IN MIND.

But a method implies separation, and is the action of thought. Thought formulates the goal and goes after it. Which means it already knew it, before it started. So the beginning was thought, and the end result is also thought.
  And truth is something else. A method can never find it. You are saying something completely different from what I do. Let's find out who's right. Not according to you or me, but what according to what the facts are.

Also, reading the second part of your post, I noticed something: the emptiness you speak of is NOT a goal, never in a million years-NEVER EVER.

  The mind can desire something or other and get it-in the TECHNOLOGICAL FIELD.

  Yet in the PSYCHOLOGICAL section it can NEVER EVER get ANYTHING. NEVER!!! And when it sees the futility of getting something, desire dies. For good.