KFA - Krishnamurti Foundation of America

The premise is back on the table: There are three recordable states of existence, or existential states, if you will.

The temporal state contains three parts, a past and a future separated by a present, usually tagged as here & now, which places it between the two as the instrument of change.

The presential state is empty of those three parts and its present is a presence which has no temporal function. If that presence is recorded in memory as a presence that was, that presence gains a past, and a history. Some might say that it has sold its soul for a beginning.

This state of being, with just a past and a present, finds itself present to the change, and the anxiety that this perpetual change creates. What will it do? It will use the empty state of being as the future, imagine a stable presence, and bring its unstable sense of self to an end in the bliss of becoming a new present.

In the temporal state of existence, the aesthetic sphere if existence, there is the state that was, the state that is, and the state that is yet to be fulfilled. In this, the presential state of existence, is connected to the presential state of existence that was, which changes presence to being present with a past, which places the unfulfilled/empty state of existence ahead of it as the future.

Ok, enough for now. Mull it over and say whatever you have to say. Does this ring any bells with anyone?

I'll pick up this theme again when next i hear it...

beanzy, to answer your question, take the followjng question and answer as your cue: "Why is there resistance to entering the lab of self?"

The lab of self is concerned only with doing, which means allowing the seeing to take a seat off the left shoulder.

The mind wants to see, which is an at once grasp. An at once grasp has a perspective to it that any other doing does not; the rest take time to do, and time is something the seeing does not want to wait for.

That resistance is tagged as impatience. I just do not have time to sit and watch myself.

In fact, I heard one lab worker say it was a 7-month process. That's a lot of fire and brimstone.

beans wrote:

Here’s another element, willy.

Venturing into the lab of self can include the experiences of feeling pain of all types, ‘losing’ material trappings and ‘losing’ a belief in control/certainty/security – in fact the lab of self it is pretty much guaranteed to require some of these (if not all), if visited for any length of time.

Of course, all those who have managed to successfully emerge say it’s worth it...

My wonk machine just sent me this message: In the lab of self, things are removed, whilst outside the lab of self, things are added.

That makes sense, it does, one of the things that could really be lost in the lab of self is one's sense of self. It would be safer to add a sense of self that does not need a sense of self, and start looking for it; like a sense of self empoty of the ego, or the me, or the thinker, or some such…

Once that losing process begins, all sorts of things can be imagined being added to that lost; the mind, reality, the future, the past, the present. Yeah, that could be quite a trip.

I think the most surprising thing about it is that one is dumped out of it where one began it, like it was all one cleaning cycle of some weird washing machine. Maybe that is what they mean by the difference between the washed and the unwashed.

No great shakes, though, simply mental hygiene. Too bad one cannot set up a franchise. Come on in and get the wash of your life. Tumble dry is free!

Of course, there is still my UF business to fall back on. Get your 6-pack the soonest!

Ok, beanzy, let me add a few comments to your comment:

<< The mind projects time and worst case scenarios as a natural way of trying to protect the person. Without time and imagination, it's just a matter of doing, now. …>>

My first thought is that a survival tool, the ability to imagine a bridge over a raging river, has also added the image of one falling off that bridge into that raging river, so the seeing of that added bit as an imagined bit removes that fear from the future and puts it into the actual crossing of that bridge.

<<… Those who are really suffering are motivated to do it. Then sometimes they come upon the right conditions or nudges and actually do it. There are factors that can get in the way, though, such as things that dull the suffering or even well-meaning people who don't understand. So many factors, and it's all just part of the dance....>>

It seems to me that, as someone once penned, ripeness is all. You could be looking for enlightenment, in whatever way you are doing, or simply looking for worldly solutions, whichever, and come across that ripeness. That context, whichever, would set the tone for what follows in that lab of self.

[this is not an edit]

Dear wonkmeister,
I hope you don't mind that I would like to wait for this weekend to take a closer look at the fantabulous above.

Roots wrote:

willy wrote:

There are three recordable states of existence,  . . .

How, please, might a an inventory of two, viz. the real and the pseudo, manifest a threefold 'state'? what's happening willy (old sock) is that your dominant psuedo is getting its way and creating for itself a duality, which, added to the real, makes for three. Why oh why oh why will you never see this?

Why? I suspect that there are those of us who were absent when the gene for recognizing the real was passed out.

For the life of me, I cannot understand any state of being, even one absent an identity, unless it has been registered in memory as having happened.

As a case in point, here is something you said (#16 in the dissolution of forum thread): "And in any event, the 'identity' will remain throughout 'the process' however long that may take. The identity's eventual dissolution represents (and is in fact identical with) the process's completion ('the process' being, of course, with regard to the particular, evolution itself)."

If that dissolution is not experienceable, how can it even be entertained as a possibility, and if it is experienceable, whose experience is it anyway?

The only answer to that, if you are correct, is that it is the identity itself realizing its oneness with the real.

For my part, I find that oneness bit capable of being naught more than a sensation, much like passing gas; and speaking of which, get your 6-pack of UF the soonest…

May you find that for which you seek.

wilbro99 wrote:

Roots wrote:

willy wrote:

There are three recordable states of existence,  . . .

How, please, might a an inventory of two, viz. the real and the pseudo, manifest a threefold 'state'? what's happening willy (old sock) is that your dominant psuedo is getting its way and creating for itself a duality, which, added to the real, makes for three. Why oh why oh why will you never see this?

Why? I suspect that there are those of us who were absent when the gene for recognizing the real was passed out.

For the life of me, I cannot understand any state of being, even one absent an identity, unless it has been registered in memory as having happened.

As a case in point, here is something you said (#16 in the dissolution of forum thread): "And in any event, the 'identity' will remain throughout 'the process' however long that may take. The identity's eventual dissolution represents (and is in fact identical with) the process's completion ('the process' being, of course, with regard to the particular, evolution itself)."

If that dissolution is not experienceable, how can it even be entertained as a possibility, and if it is experienceable, whose experience is it anyway?

The only answer to that, if you are correct, is that it is the identity itself realizing its oneness with the real.

For my part, I find that oneness bit capable of being naught more than a sensation, much like passing gas; and speaking of which, get your 6-pack of UF the soonest…

May you find that for which you seek.

Oi you, don't start knocking the meaning and significance of passing gas, some things are truly sacred and truly never grow... ah, stale.

RJ wrote:

wilbro99 wrote:

Roots wrote:

How, please, might a an inventory of two, viz. the real and the pseudo, manifest a threefold 'state'? what's happening willy (old sock) is that your dominant psuedo is getting its way and creating for itself a duality, which, added to the real, makes for three. Why oh why oh why will you never see this?

Why? I suspect that there are those of us who were absent when the gene for recognizing the real was passed out.

For the life of me, I cannot understand any state of being, even one absent an identity, unless it has been registered in memory as having happened.

As a case in point, here is something you said (#16 in the dissolution of forum thread): "And in any event, the 'identity' will remain throughout 'the process' however long that may take. The identity's eventual dissolution represents (and is in fact identical with) the process's completion ('the process' being, of course, with regard to the particular, evolution itself)."

If that dissolution is not experienceable, how can it even be entertained as a possibility, and if it is experienceable, whose experience is it anyway?

The only answer to that, if you are correct, is that it is the identity itself realizing its oneness with the real.

For my part, I find that oneness bit capable of being naught more than a sensation, much like passing gas; and speaking of which, get your 6-pack of UF the soonest…

May you find that for which you seek.

Oi you, don't start knocking the meaning and significance of passing gas, some things are truly sacred and truly never grow... ah, stale.

You speak from the wrong side of the water RJ. Everything has its place of course (ask Eden!) but the promotion of the wrong side would not be a thing for advocation by K, and this is a K site.

http://www.fourmilab.ch/cgi-bin/Earth?o … earth.evif

Check us out!

Last edited by wilbro99 (2012-07-21 01:37:57)

bean-z, I was thinking of ripeness as the condition in which the fruit will not only fall, but in falling hit that one sleeping beneath on the noggin, and, in the process, wake that sleeper up.

So, ripeness is a good word to express the point where the conditional crosses into the realized.

So, all of your questions are applicable to the notion of realization as the insight actualized.

All of the above was to give myself some space to answer as I can your questions.

later gater...

wilbro99 wrote:

beanzy sez: "In fact, I heard one lab worker say it was a 7-month process. That's a lot of fire and brimstone."

joe and I have brought up the notion of context from time to time. I think our agreement is that the context is set by the door through which one enters that lab of self, of how one first acquires that present tense reflection upon the act that is oneself.

It might be interesting to do a study on those different doors and look for what they have in common; like maybe there is a generic door that can be entered as an act of will.

My suggestion for a generic door is to begin with the study of the ways one reacts to their reaction to what is going on in thought and feeling.

I mean, what can it hurt to understand why you are reacting as you are? The announcement on the first page of the Forum home is all about that study.

[edit divides one paragraph into two paragraphs]

I think the storm door in front of that door may be the undifferentiated anxiety one you had mentioned....but maybe not for all, if there are different doors as you say.