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#1 2008-05-20 16:45:30

george564
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Registered: 2008-05-20
Posts: 2

Eckhart Tolle

Hello. Was wondering if anyone had any "thoughts" on Mr Tolle. He appears to have skill at putting in words that which cannot be put into words. He does have insight into the human condition and seems to possess a want to help. I have read one of his books and it is in sync with Jiddu's "teachings".

Thanks you.

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#2 2008-05-20 17:08:35

troy
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Registered: 2008-01-16
Posts: 688

Re: Eckhart Tolle

I read The Power of Now, which I would recommend, haven’t read the others. I saw a DVD, the name I forget, it was one of his seminars. He makes some of Krishnamurti’s work more contemporary in language, and I think more understandable to people new to the idea of inward investigation. The DVD was a little too new-age-y for me.
That said, I find nothing wrong with anyone who tries to open people up to the idea that their own conditioned thought is the troublemaker. There’s almost no wrong approach to saying, “your problems aren’t out there, your joy isn’t out there, peace isn’t out there, it’s all in you already. It’s buried under your thought and conditioning.
For even more specifics on how your thought is all that’s between you and the end of your suffering, I’d suggest Byron Katie’s Loving What Is.

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#3 2008-05-21 03:12:50

GIRISH MENON
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Registered: 2008-05-15
Posts: 17

Re: Eckhart Tolle

Ekhart tolle's teaching is the closest to JK's teachings, I agree, but the basic diferrence i found was whereas JK found words as a barrier to explain his teachings but since did not have any option had to resort to it, but constantly reminded that the word is not the thing and  not to get entangled in the analysis ,whereas Ekchart was more at ease with the usage of words.

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#4 2008-05-21 07:34:36

peter
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Registered: 2008-03-20
Posts: 1400

Re: Eckhart Tolle

I question that I am to collect explanations.  In my everyday life  there is a great deal of communication, words, but there is always the intimacy missing. The reason for this is that the relationships are about transmission of words, ideas, plans, instructions, etc, etc. and is about constructing connections. Relationship has lost its sensitivity, its sense of a natural caring. Really a pure, natural, intimate connection doesn't need relationship. The false relationships we are creating require explanation.  It is religion.

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#5 2008-05-21 22:35:55

Aimee
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Registered: 2008-03-19
Posts: 4

Re: Eckhart Tolle

I think it's basically a style difference. The Eckhart and K messages are the same, but Eckhart's method of delivery is probably more palatable to most people who wouldn't give K a second look. Eckhart seems very good at getting his message to the mainstream, as evidenced by the millions of people who watched the ten week on-line class that he did recently with Oprah Winfrey. He is the manifestation of gentleness, and that quality invites people to listen. The fact that so many people know who he is and are open to his message is heartwarming. Being embraced by Oprah, a powerful media figure, signals the message's exposure and, hopefully, acceptance by a larger, more mainstream segment of society than has ever been interested in such things previously.

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#6 2008-05-22 17:23:03

peter
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Registered: 2008-03-20
Posts: 1400

Re: Eckhart Tolle

Looking for an authority, to accept or reject, for security, for safety, for happiness,  is not going to change a thing.

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#7 2008-05-24 14:20:23

troy
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Registered: 2008-01-16
Posts: 688

Re: Eckhart Tolle

Kindly sidestep any personality analysis of authors or speakers on the subject, or of each other. It is fair game to challenge, question and analyze, if you will, any observations and comments. Dissecting the personality or motivations of anyone other than ourselves is guesswork at best. And it tends to discount everything they said in one swipe of instant analysis.
Highly neurotic authors have written incredibly insightful observations. Discounting everything they say by our suspicions of their intent or state of mind imposes limits, sanctions, on our inquiry.
My experience is that the self deluded, the spiritual frauds in it for money and personal glory, are eventually outed, usually by themselves. Preachers and prostitutes come to mind.
I have quite enough of my own self delusion to worry about. If I fall victim to spiritual come ons, it’s because I wanted something, a guru, a quick fix, to be part of a movement, spiritually hip, whatever. Their motivations, conditioning, are their business. My business is my motivations, my conditioning.
This is an interesting thread. Clearly how the subject (looking inward, thought) is handled is important. All of the comments show that approach is as significant as content.  I look forward to the continuation of this discussion.

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#8 2008-05-24 15:05:18

matsqqqq
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Registered: 2008-05-18
Posts: 296

Re: Eckhart Tolle

Excellent summary, Fireplug.

Maybe a little hard on Tolle, but then again I'm sure K would have been too ... smile

Last edited by matsqqqq (2008-05-24 15:05:51)

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#9 2008-05-24 15:27:42

matsqqqq
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Registered: 2008-05-18
Posts: 296

Re: Eckhart Tolle

Ken wrote:

I've never been impressed with this "via negativa" business. When Krishnamurti tries to explain what love is by outlining what it is not, it's a bit of a stretch.
You cannot say what something is not without already having a working familiarity or conception of its opposite.
If you ask "What is stealing?", you can pretend you don't know what stealing is by pointing out what it is not...it is not charity, it is not sharing, it is not lying, etc., but you already have some notion of what it is before you throw the dice.

ken

I happen to like the negative approach - but it is best applied to positvely loaded words like "love". 

And you have to have some kind of notion of what it is you are discussing or there would  be nothing to discuss ...

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#10 2008-05-24 19:31:14

natura
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From: Australia
Registered: 2008-04-22
Posts: 4325
Website

Re: Eckhart Tolle

Love never is an object to discussing, dear friends, - impossible.

You never can set the moon in a pot however long you would discuss about and however brilliant ideas you might find for getting that. First of all you don’t have that moon; second, your pot is not that big.

Only notion about love, that poor substitute, could be discussed. You can make a fortune on that by writing about, talking about, making TV-shows or selling DVD’s but you can never get the love itself that way; neither you as the talker nor your audience. Show will ever remain only a show, entertainment. If you want get your business and money- it may help. If you want spend your money and buy some fun or simply better mood- it may help as well.

But you can neither sell nor buy love.

Each of us has to decide what is most important for him/her to get love itself or to remain satisfied with talking about because they both eliminate each other.

And this is the same question about the "via negativa" (I personally would suggest a term even better “ad absurdum") whether you like it or not.


γνῶθι σεαυτόν (nosce te ipsum)

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#11 2008-05-25 05:02:11

natura
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From: Australia
Registered: 2008-04-22
Posts: 4325
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Re: Eckhart Tolle

Ad absurdum- in good English- proof by contradiction is a type of logical argument.

I have intentionally taken that term from logic use to underline the discretion between human and over-human dimensions, between thoughtful mind with its logic and super-level of consciousness called love or truth with its special qualities which have nothing to do with logic.

The direct approach to truth is an attempt to get it with human mind, i.e. to polish the mind that far that it would be able to conceive the truth.

That is impossible, that is absurd.

The approach via negative is just opposite of that – the mind must stop any logical activities to let truth to come.

When we will see the whole absurdum of the direct approach in our life while our observations the mind will see its own bounds and therefore will stop its activities.

That is self-knowledge.

fireplug wrote:

We become unreasonably and unjustifiably angry with a child and then, quite suddenly, we see the error that we have made, feel terrible and think to ourselves, "how could I have done that? Whats wrong with me?  I'm some kind of monster. Was that really me behaving like that?" In this example, there was no intellectual process. fireplug

Look, fireplug: “In this example, there was no intellectual process”; most probably it wasn’t indeed, but your conclusion is a pure logical one because it is set up in your own human mind: I –AM – A MONSTER. You suddenly see that contradiction coming out of your own behaviour. When you see it clearly you will stop immediately your excitement and appropriately mistreating of the child.

If you once suddenly see you cannot put the moon into the pot you will certainly stop your activity and save with that lot of useful energy.

Just the same matter is about TV- and other- shows.


γνῶθι σεαυτόν (nosce te ipsum)

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#12 2008-05-25 07:07:13

george564
New member
Registered: 2008-05-20
Posts: 2

Re: Eckhart Tolle

Hello. I began this thread inquiring about Eckhart Tolle's writngs. Seeing him on the podcast with Oprah, has allowed me to "open the window" again. About thirty years ago, I literally did little else than study JK's books. I may have grasped them intellectually, but never was able to see the urgency of change.
I feel Tolle does "sugar-coat" issues, but, that makes him more palatable than JK, who shoots from the hip. Most westerners would totally negate JK if they heard terms such as, the destructive family unit. I think Tolle's appearance in our lives is a step forward.


I was actually surprised to see a forum on the teachings of JK. For those who have not seen the urgency of change for themselves, it may be a necessary step towards that end.
Even though JK would not "approve" I think it is a good thing, this forum, as it may lead us towards awakening our intelligence.
Thanks,

Last edited by george564 (2008-05-25 07:18:20)

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#13 2008-05-25 08:31:49

natura
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From: Australia
Registered: 2008-04-22
Posts: 4325
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Re: Eckhart Tolle

Dear fireplug,

I perfectly see we are agreed regarding “via negative”. My “ad absurdum” is actually just the same thing.
Moreover, I agree with you basically in all important points of your original message. Probably you took may message just too personally.

My previous message is getting deeper in the whole matter and trying to give a support to your position about exclusivity, absolute necessity of via negative for self-exploring and getting truth.

You have done a great deal of work though only one point about approaching to truth- “positive” or “negative” could be enough for all. It is a key-point in this issue at all, it covers everything.
My aim is by all means to emphasise that point.

That way in scopes of the thread we are completely together.

So, now have a look in quiet at my messages again.

The best to you.


γνῶθι σεαυτόν (nosce te ipsum)

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#14 2008-05-25 09:27:42

natura
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From: Australia
Registered: 2008-04-22
Posts: 4325
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Re: Eckhart Tolle

Dear george564,

With all my heart I understand your feelings about that issue but yet cannot share your general position.

Personality of K. or somebody else has absolutely nothing to do with all that.

The most palatable thing is the cheese in the mousetrap.

Unfortunately there are not any “sugar-coat issues” by self-knowledge and the shootings from the hip are very possible...

Welcome to the forum.


γνῶθι σεαυτόν (nosce te ipsum)

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#15 2008-05-25 20:17:47

natura
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From: Australia
Registered: 2008-04-22
Posts: 4325
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Re: Eckhart Tolle

fireplug wrote:

...there are no “sugar-coat issues” when it comes to self knowledge. Why anybody needs them to be made more palatable seems to reflect the desire for someone else to do the work for them. You must do the work yourseslf.

Precisely expressed.


γνῶθι σεαυτόν (nosce te ipsum)

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#16 2008-06-28 22:35:40

shepp
New member
Registered: 2008-06-28
Posts: 2

Re: Eckhart Tolle

I,too, studied JK about 28 years ago.  Was pregnant at the time I started the study.  My daughter, now 28, has become very interested in Tolle.  She seems to have made quite a change in her life from this study.  I feel he is very close in his teaching to JK.  When she first ask me to look into Eckhart, I felt I had already been there.  I am grateful for renewing me for what it has meant to my daughter.

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#17 2008-07-01 23:08:48

natura
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From: Australia
Registered: 2008-04-22
Posts: 4325
Website

Re: Eckhart Tolle

Hello, dear shepp,

Coincidently I found a book of him on the table being with my friend this weekend. We read some passages and talked about their meaning.

She was fond of him. I find him naive.

Not that I’m severely against show-teachers, spiritual business and that sort.
Anyway, I had “swallowed” vast amount of that stuff before I discovered Krishnamurti and what is behind his words, many years ago.
Anyway, K. himself admitted he had done lot of work cleansing himself from previous spiritual stuff he had been filled by his teachers.

Well, we have to pay for our previous illusions, mistakes and misunderstandings; sometimes it is a hard prise.

To discern that genuine value among that vast of material and spiritual chaos around and inside us is a strictly personal task and any progress and results depend strictly from personal inner ripeness of the individual.

Only one is sure, we need enormous dedication to do this job.

Much love to you and your daughter.


γνῶθι σεαυτόν (nosce te ipsum)

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#18 2008-07-08 10:20:29

matsqqqq
Member
Registered: 2008-05-18
Posts: 296

Re: Eckhart Tolle

In the quote below Tolle says that K once told that his "secret" was that he don't mind what happens.
But what K was talking about was just his means of making a livelihood.
Maybe that says something about Tolle that he thinks K big secret was how to make a living  smile

"J. Krishnamurti, the great Indian philosopher and spiritual teacher, spoke and traveled almost continuously all over the world for more than fifty years attempting to convey through words - which are content - that which is beyond words, beyond content.  At one of his talks in the later part of his life, he surprised his audience by asking, "Do you want to know my secret?"  Everyone became very alert.  Many people in the audience had been coming to listen to him for twenty or thirty years and still failed to grasp the essence of his teaching.  Finally, after all these years, the master would give them the key to understanding.  'This is my secret,' he said.  <b>'I don't mind what happens.'</b>"
                                                             (Excerpt from: A New Earth: Awakening to your Life's Purpose, Eckhart Tolle,2005, Chapter Seven, p.198)





18 What am I to do, if I jive this kind of life? No conflict inwardly. Do you know what that means? When there is no conflict inside there is no conflict outside, because there is no division between the inner and the outer. You understand? It’s like ebb and flow, the sea coming in and the sea going out, but when there is this psychologically no conflict, the ebb going out also no conflict. You understand? What shall I do? I have to earn a livelihood, unfortunately — personally I don’t. (Laughter) I don’t because I’ve no problem about earning a livelihood. But you have a problem about earning a livelihood. Why haven’t I a problem about not earning a livelihood? Because - very simple. You’re all waiting? (Laughter) You’re a strange people all right! (Laughter) <b>I’ve no problem because I don’t mind what happens. </b> You understand? I don’t mind if I fail or succeed, I don’t mind if I have money or not money — personally I have no money, thank god. I don’t want money, but I need food and clothes and shelter, and if somebody gives me, it’s all right, if somebody doesn’t, I live where I an. You understand my question? I have no problem because I don’t demand anything from anybody or from life. I wonder if you understand this.

Talk 2. Ojai. California. 03 April 1977

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#19 2009-02-22 04:55:33

mindcontrol
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From: Simi Valley, CA
Registered: 2009-02-16
Posts: 102
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Re: Eckhart Tolle

george564 wrote:

Hello. Was wondering if anyone had any "thoughts" on Mr Tolle. He appears to have skill at putting in words that which cannot be put into words. He does have insight into the human condition and seems to possess a want to help. I have read one of his books and it is in sync with Jiddu's "teachings".

Thanks you.

Hi George!

I recently started listening to Eckhart Tolle and have been flipping through some of his literature for the past several month. I have to say that I like what I'm hearing from him so far. I hear people say sometimes... gosh he sounds like -K-... I say so what if he does. If what he says rings true then keep listening. Aside from that the more people that get turned on to this line of observation and awareness the better.

I dig Tolle and look forward to studying up on more of his work. I've posted some of his stuff on my blog and will continue to as I have an extensive digital library of his work.

Peace and Love.

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#20 2009-02-22 06:12:42

eveA. goodmon
Member
Registered: 2009-02-21
Posts: 11

Re: Eckhart Tolle

Thanks Troy....I read Mr. Tolle and I find him very interesting, nothing new but very interesting. He is less difficult to understand sometimes and more 'light' but when he speaks of the nature of thought he makes it clearer for todays folks that find K hard to read. K is hard to read for many.

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#21 2009-02-22 06:22:54

WB
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From: Toulouse France
Registered: 2008-05-17
Posts: 1562
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Re: Eckhart Tolle

Just went to a book store with lots of books of Tolle and not a single book of K. Looking through some of his books I thought he is a smart copy cat of K. Somehow I did not get any interest in reading a book of Tolle. Ks words reproduced under a different name. It is possible I am wrong but that is what my first reaction was.

Last edited by WB (2009-02-22 06:28:52)

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#22 2009-02-22 09:19:25

eveA. goodmon
Member
Registered: 2009-02-21
Posts: 11

Re: Eckhart Tolle

That was my first reaction also....then I understood that it was also different. Truth would sound as truth and not as identification with a source.

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#23 2009-02-22 10:16:20

MarkAnthony
Member
Registered: 2009-02-09
Posts: 200

Re: Eckhart Tolle

I think within a couple years you will see Eckhart quotes inside McDonald's wrappers, perhaps even little Eckhart figurines inside Kid's Happy Meals.

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#24 2009-02-22 11:56:42

MarkAnthony
Member
Registered: 2009-02-09
Posts: 200

Re: Eckhart Tolle

K wrote:

I don’t want money, but I need food and clothes and shelter, and if somebody gives me, it’s all right, if somebody doesn’t, I live where I am. You understand my question? I have no problem because I don’t demand anything from anybody or from life. I wonder if you understand this.              Talk 2. Ojai. California. 03 April 1977

This sums up K quite well.  And yes K, I do understand this.

I understand that you are a chihuahua, bred to be one.  We cannot expect you to be a wolf.  You are quite content to eat dog food, if that's all that life throws at you.  All your natural survival instincts have been bred and conditioned out of you, and thus you are dependent upon your owner, and your owner is psychologically dependent upon you. 

Your primal instincts have been dulled, thus obviously the urge to live a non-dependent, self sufficient, self-sustainable lifestyle, in a symbiotic relationship with the land...does not move through you.  How could it?

I also understand that as a chihuahua, you attract other chihuahuas.  It can be no other way. 

Society needed you K, and you needed society.  If you had the physical capacity and the innate loathing, to reject the slop thrown into your bowl, surely you would have used all your intelligence, and the incredible energy you had, to reject ALL the non-sense of society, and you would have found a way to live in symbiosis with nature.   

You would have emphasized the need to not only be psychologically free, but physically sensitive as well...and you wouldn't have placed more importance upon one than the other, knowing they are both essential and knowing that lacking in one, the other is ultimately destroyed...leaving us with neither.

In so doing, through your example, you would have begun to set man unconditionally free.  But alas, the physical intelligence of the body could not take over, as the conditioning was too deep. 

Just like K, his pseudo offspring Eckhart, wont make living or dying into a psychological problem.  I will give them that much.  Like K, Eckhart is leading humans down a path of increasing presence, diminishing ego, a more still mind, all happening to bodies that are becoming more disease ridden, more pain ridden, more neurologically desensitized, more functionally defective, more medicated, and less and less in symbiosis with the cycles of nature. 

Of course this is not a problem either, as Mother Nature always has it in check.  One can only have compassion, as one cannot be anything other than what they are.

MarkA.

Last edited by MarkAnthony (2009-02-22 16:43:26)

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#25 2009-02-22 13:18:52

mindcontrol
Member
From: Simi Valley, CA
Registered: 2009-02-16
Posts: 102
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Re: Eckhart Tolle

WB wrote:

Just went to a book store with lots of books of Tolle and not a single book of K. Looking through some of his books I thought he is a smart copy cat of K. Somehow I did not get any interest in reading a book of Tolle. Ks words reproduced under a different name. It is possible I am wrong but that is what my first reaction was.

The first video I ever saw of Eckhat Tolle the fist thing out of his mouth was a mention of -K-. Having already been a little familiar with Tolle's work having read his books I never mad the connection between him and -K-.

In any case as soon as he said Krishnamurti in this video I just got a HUGE smile on my face and a feeling of gratitude came over me. I'm thankful for -K-'s message and its so AWESOME to see his message or teachings manifest in another world persona.

Eckhart is great... the truth is the truth period, let everyone in the world say it and be it, the world would be a better place for it.

Here is that video.
http://degreesofemotion.wordpress.com/2 … art-tolle/

I've also recently been listening to a lot of Tolles work in digital MP3 format and he constantly references -K-, I think its great. I'd also like to add that having read and studied Alan Watts and Ram Dass work for several years I've only just recently noticed in the audio I've been listening to for years... they both mention -K- and I didn't even realize it until now.

The messenger is anonymous.

Peace and Love.

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